Bi-X: W203/CL203 OEM Bi-XENON Upgrade, Auto-Levelling & Programming thread
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Hi Glyn,
yeah i know its different in europe, but hids are different in the states as well. ECE hids tend to be clear with a sharp cutoff..creating clear cut offs and good intensity from a distance and up close.
US DOT hids tend to have frensel or diffused lens to make them bright from a distance then get less intense as you get closer. The cut off is also not as sharp and more diffused.
Before they made clear lens replicas, people use to buy ece lens and swap them out in the US hid projectors because it would make the beam sharper and brighter.
Taken from my argument with e1000 thread.
European ECE e46 projectors
US DOT version of the same projectors
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...thread-22.html
yeah i know its different in europe, but hids are different in the states as well. ECE hids tend to be clear with a sharp cutoff..creating clear cut offs and good intensity from a distance and up close.
US DOT hids tend to have frensel or diffused lens to make them bright from a distance then get less intense as you get closer. The cut off is also not as sharp and more diffused.
Before they made clear lens replicas, people use to buy ece lens and swap them out in the US hid projectors because it would make the beam sharper and brighter.
Taken from my argument with e1000 thread.
European ECE e46 projectors
US DOT version of the same projectors
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...thread-22.html
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
It also depends on what year too. The early 350z's had reflector based hids and later models used the hella made e55 projectors.
Also keep in mind he has a US 350z where as you have a UK one. You guys pay in pounds, what we pay in dollars..i figure you deserve more features right?..
Also keep in mind he has a US 350z where as you have a UK one. You guys pay in pounds, what we pay in dollars..i figure you deserve more features right?..
Newbie
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C32 AMG
Xenon upgrade to bi-xenon?
My left xenon headlight (part xenon, part halogen) has a broken holder/connection to the chassi, as a souvenir from a hit and run parking lot "artist". A pretty common thing I am told.
As a result, my left headlight is out of whack: it points a bit higher than the right.
I have a decent opportunity to buy a set of used bi-xenon, incl. "control-units".
Do you know how much is plug&play and how much is "re-engineering the whole concept of the car" in an upgrade from xenon to bi-xenon?
- power supply?
- auto-balancing/levelling
- recoding (activating certain codes in) the computer?
- ?
As a result, my left headlight is out of whack: it points a bit higher than the right.
I have a decent opportunity to buy a set of used bi-xenon, incl. "control-units".
Do you know how much is plug&play and how much is "re-engineering the whole concept of the car" in an upgrade from xenon to bi-xenon?
- power supply?
- auto-balancing/levelling
- recoding (activating certain codes in) the computer?
- ?
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Doesn't change my attitude that Auto leveling should be mandatory for safety reasons & I like the European solution.I know exactly what your photos are trying to show but they really suck at it. Different circumstances - different exposures. Hardly comparable
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
My left xenon headlight (part xenon, part halogen) has a broken holder/connection to the chassi, as a souvenir from a hit and run parking lot "artist". A pretty common thing I am told.
As a result, my left headlight is out of whack: it points a bit higher than the right.
I have a decent opportunity to buy a set of used bi-xenon, incl. "control-units".
Do you know how much is plug&play and how much is "re-engineering the whole concept of the car" in an upgrade from xenon to bi-xenon?
- power supply?
- auto-balancing/levelling
- recoding (activating certain codes in) the computer?
- ?
As a result, my left headlight is out of whack: it points a bit higher than the right.
I have a decent opportunity to buy a set of used bi-xenon, incl. "control-units".
Do you know how much is plug&play and how much is "re-engineering the whole concept of the car" in an upgrade from xenon to bi-xenon?
- power supply?
- auto-balancing/levelling
- recoding (activating certain codes in) the computer?
- ?
Super Moderator
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Posts: 19,942
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Read this. Similar question. Ignore some of the backwards and forwards up front until we realised the poster already had Xenons
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-facelift.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-facelift.html
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3
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C32 AMG
> Zenon to BiX is plug & play. Frank W has done it on his C32. You already have all the self leveling gear not so?
- Yes I do.
OK, sounds good. Has Frank W(iesmann, right?) posted any info on this? I cannot find it anywhere...
- Yes I do.
OK, sounds good. Has Frank W(iesmann, right?) posted any info on this? I cannot find it anywhere...
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Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Direct quote from Frank. "xenon to bi-xenon are a direct swap. just depends on how much you can get them for.
I did mine."
Sent him a PM
I did mine."
Sent him a PM
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
I'm not disagreeing with you, but back to what splinter was saying, it doesnt make to sense to try to add a feature that can be up to half the value of the car when just having them aimed correctly can be a sufficient substitute.
I've had my tsx projectors since april without autoleveling. I've never been flashed and most people can't tell there non oem until i drive up next to them at night and my lights are brighter then theres since i'm running 55watt ballasts..
.
Newbie
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C32 AMG
Thanks a lot Glyn.
I followed the link in your first post and found all the info I needed. (I guess I was not the first one with this problem :-)
I have ordered the bi-xenons now: W203, 2003; 320 EUR.
Thanks & BR
/Nedjad
I followed the link in your first post and found all the info I needed. (I guess I was not the first one with this problem :-)
I have ordered the bi-xenons now: W203, 2003; 320 EUR.
Thanks & BR
/Nedjad
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
There's a huge difference between fresnel vs clear lens projectors. The ece shields also have a higher step compared to dot shields as well. If you see it in person you'll understand what i mean.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but back to what splinter was saying, it doesnt make to sense to try to add a feature that can be up to half the value of the car when just having them aimed correctly can be a sufficient substitute.
I've had my tsx projectors since april without autoleveling. I've never been flashed and most people can't tell there non oem until i drive up next to them at night and my lights are brighter then theres since i'm running 55watt ballasts...
I'm not disagreeing with you, but back to what splinter was saying, it doesnt make to sense to try to add a feature that can be up to half the value of the car when just having them aimed correctly can be a sufficient substitute.
I've had my tsx projectors since april without autoleveling. I've never been flashed and most people can't tell there non oem until i drive up next to them at night and my lights are brighter then theres since i'm running 55watt ballasts..
.Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Dec 10, 2008 at 05:22 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Va Beach, VA
05 C230K SS (sold), 06 C55 (sold), 08 Yamaha R1 (sold), 16 X5M
ya all you africans are crazy cuz I don't understand half the terms you use in your posts...is anyone else have trouble understanding what he's talking about half the time?
Super Moderator
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I do try to use American English on the forum as I worked for an American Oil Company for 37 years & understand the problem. I substitute trunk for boot & hood for bonnet etc.
Under our education system the use of American English & spelling even to this day will ensure you are marked wrong, wrong, wrong!
Anyone else have a problem understanding me? Do you have trouble understanding Splinter? He is one person on this forum that uses good English (British perspective)
My roots are British/Canadian
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Dec 10, 2008 at 10:14 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Oh agreed Mike on cost - I was just waxing philosophical - I still think that unless aimed conservatively they can be a bit of a bugger - As Bix have become a very common sight on South African roads - drivers need to wake up. Late dipping or not dipping at all can be a very unpleasant experience for oncoming drivers
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...27339835419326
Also keep in mind the auto leveling only works effectively if your driving slow over dips or the dips gradual or around corners. I know the bmw ones turn around corners with the steering, not sure if the mercedes one does the same.
If you go over a bump quickly the auto leveling won't have time to adjust fast enough anyways.
Most roads in the US are pretty flat anyways, at least around large cities and most of the mid west.
Out Of Control!!
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From: OC
a quarter mile at a time
here's a video clip of my e46 bixenons on my civic. As you can see the cut off is lot more blurry then the ece. The step is also less distinct then the ece was well. The video was taken with the head light cover off..a lot of the blue goes away when the cover is placed on the head light.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...27339835419326
Also keep in mind the auto leveling only works effectively if your driving slow over dips or the dips gradual or around corners. I know the bmw ones turn around corners with the steering, not sure if the mercedes one does the same.
If you go over a bump quickly the auto leveling won't have time to adjust fast enough anyways.
Most roads in the US are pretty flat anyways, at least around large cities and most of the mid west.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...27339835419326
Also keep in mind the auto leveling only works effectively if your driving slow over dips or the dips gradual or around corners. I know the bmw ones turn around corners with the steering, not sure if the mercedes one does the same.
If you go over a bump quickly the auto leveling won't have time to adjust fast enough anyways.
Most roads in the US are pretty flat anyways, at least around large cities and most of the mid west.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...rojectors.html
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
WHAT!????? Lol. This isn't what you were saying back in June.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...rojectors.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...rojectors.html
You can still get flicker and glare when you go over a hill or long dip.
Have you never gone down a small dip and a car follows behind you with hids and the light from the car following behind turns blue or purple for a second in your rear view mirror when the car is coming up on the upward part of the dip.
situations like that auto leveling will elminate distractons like that. Why do you think the EU requires them by law.
Last edited by TemjinX2; Dec 10, 2008 at 11:24 AM.
Out Of Control!!
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From: OC
a quarter mile at a time
Lets start off with your definition of "flicker"
And then you go on to say:
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900681-post24.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900318-post22.html
the purple and blue flicker you see, usually results from when the car drives over imperfections on the road to cause the cut off from the projector to move above its predetermined height and hit your eye rather then the bumper.
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900681-post24.html
Auto leveling was specifically designed to keep the cut off at stock level to prevent flicker.
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900318-post22.html
Hence a device they keeps the cutoff at the predetermined height will prevent flicker since flicker is the result of the cut off leaving its predetermined height.
Out Of Control!!
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From: OC
a quarter mile at a time
Actually, this post pretty much sums it up, which you DID disagree with me about going over bumps.
I said:
And then you replied:
I said:
they don't adjust that fast, especially not over bumps.
You're on the right track but you're a bit misguided. The blue or yellow hues are determined by where the cutoff shield is in relation to the projector focal length. You can bend the shield a bit to get a more bluer or yellower cutoff. Again, the autoleveling isn't fast enough to react to things like bumps in the road.
Plus.....I'm pretty sure all factory HID equiped cars must also be auto-leveling and have a headlamp washing system
You're on the right track but you're a bit misguided. The blue or yellow hues are determined by where the cutoff shield is in relation to the projector focal length. You can bend the shield a bit to get a more bluer or yellower cutoff. Again, the autoleveling isn't fast enough to react to things like bumps in the road.
Plus.....I'm pretty sure all factory HID equiped cars must also be auto-leveling and have a headlamp washing system
And then you replied:
you are correct about color at the cut off. I was talking about color from the flicker.
Flicker is glare from the cut off when it hits the human eye, usually via bumps in the road. The human brain only has a second to determine the color, so it picks the color thats dominates at the time from the color spectrum of the cut off.
perfect example would be a ap1 s2000. Drive in front of a 2000-2004 s2000 on a bumpy road and you will understand what i mean. The stock cut off is white, but when it flickers, it flickers blue, purple and yellow.
Your are incorrect on the auto leveling. Auto leveling was specifically designed to keep the cut off at stock level to prevent flicker. Flicker looks great, but can be distracting to other drivers on the road since its a form of glare, hence why its considered a safety feature and only come on hid lights not halogens.
Manufacturers have replaced clear lens with fresnel ones to soften the cut off and reduce flicker.
I believe it might be required to have auto level lights in Europe. I know its not required in the US. The s2000 and last gen tsx did not have auto leveling lights.
Flicker is glare from the cut off when it hits the human eye, usually via bumps in the road. The human brain only has a second to determine the color, so it picks the color thats dominates at the time from the color spectrum of the cut off.
perfect example would be a ap1 s2000. Drive in front of a 2000-2004 s2000 on a bumpy road and you will understand what i mean. The stock cut off is white, but when it flickers, it flickers blue, purple and yellow.
Your are incorrect on the auto leveling. Auto leveling was specifically designed to keep the cut off at stock level to prevent flicker. Flicker looks great, but can be distracting to other drivers on the road since its a form of glare, hence why its considered a safety feature and only come on hid lights not halogens.
Manufacturers have replaced clear lens with fresnel ones to soften the cut off and reduce flicker.
I believe it might be required to have auto level lights in Europe. I know its not required in the US. The s2000 and last gen tsx did not have auto leveling lights.
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
You’re correct, as incorrectly aimed HIDs are annoying and indeed a potential hazard to oncoming motorists. Our NHTSA’s FMVSS stipulates that xenon headlamps must be self aiming.
Mr. Stern’s treatise regarding glare.
The vast majority of professionals in my neighborhood pilot vehicles originally equipped with xenon lighting. As they bobble along our pockmarked streets, encounter a dip in the road and rebound, or crest a rise, their high-end lighting is readily identifiable to any enthusiast and, I suspect, most mundane commuters. They should not project untoward glare during steady-state conditions, but instances when it occurs are a given – as with any headlamps.
I’ve personally helped a bro fit bi-xenons to his W203 which was originally equipped with halogen lamps. Not long thereafter, my frosty OE xenons were ditched for proper European-specification bi-xenons. It’s a kick to watch them cycle through their aiming limits from high to low against the garage wall before settling in on their preprogrammed focal point upon startup. Nonetheless, they’ve necessitated mechanical aiming and sensor adjustments as it’s gone through its various suspension and ride height (rake) iterations during my stewardship. Several stateside have completed similar upgrades. Most are responsible and mature representatives of the marque, as their lamps are correctly aimed downward from the static point of origin. There is not, as I understand it, any dynamic aiming capability whist underway with our chassis, save for those equipped with MB’s aiming thumbwheel adjacent to the headlamp switch.
It is not a realistic or sensible ROI to insist one retrofit MB’s leveling paraphernalia during a HID upgrade, as doing so would require an expenditure approaching or exceeding half the market value of the entire car in many instances. One should insist that they be aimed correctly with due respect to fellow motorists and then be on his merry way. IMHO, of course.
Mr. Stern’s treatise regarding glare.
The vast majority of professionals in my neighborhood pilot vehicles originally equipped with xenon lighting. As they bobble along our pockmarked streets, encounter a dip in the road and rebound, or crest a rise, their high-end lighting is readily identifiable to any enthusiast and, I suspect, most mundane commuters. They should not project untoward glare during steady-state conditions, but instances when it occurs are a given – as with any headlamps.
I’ve personally helped a bro fit bi-xenons to his W203 which was originally equipped with halogen lamps. Not long thereafter, my frosty OE xenons were ditched for proper European-specification bi-xenons. It’s a kick to watch them cycle through their aiming limits from high to low against the garage wall before settling in on their preprogrammed focal point upon startup. Nonetheless, they’ve necessitated mechanical aiming and sensor adjustments as it’s gone through its various suspension and ride height (rake) iterations during my stewardship. Several stateside have completed similar upgrades. Most are responsible and mature representatives of the marque, as their lamps are correctly aimed downward from the static point of origin. There is not, as I understand it, any dynamic aiming capability whist underway with our chassis, save for those equipped with MB’s aiming thumbwheel adjacent to the headlamp switch.
It is not a realistic or sensible ROI to insist one retrofit MB’s leveling paraphernalia during a HID upgrade, as doing so would require an expenditure approaching or exceeding half the market value of the entire car in many instances. One should insist that they be aimed correctly with due respect to fellow motorists and then be on his merry way. IMHO, of course.
I hate having to read the drivel that Mr. Glyn Rick puts out. Even on ignore I end up seeing his posts....
I'm the lucky guy that Splinter helped to install the Bix. Correct aiming is no more difficult than aiming a standard light. The light output of bix to halogen is beyond compare and worth the money. I mean, look at my mod list.
While I did not know that it was a federal law to have the leveling system, I have taken great measure to monitor the light pattern of my bix and adjust accordingly.
E
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
i used that as one example of flicker. Flicker can occur via bumps in the road or dips. Its basically whenever the cut off the projector hits the drivers eye...giving off that brief blue or purple color then goes back to being yellow.
Out Of Control!!
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From: OC
a quarter mile at a time
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,034
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Lets start off with your definition of "flicker"
And then you go on to say:
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900681-post24.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900318-post22.html
And then you go on to say:
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900681-post24.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/2900318-post22.html
My main disagreement with you was lack of recognization of color at the cut off, flicker and that there performance differences between different hid projectors.
I've heard you say this before and I think you really need to learn more about lighting. First of all, just because the bosch projectors are popular, dosen't mean they are bad. They are compact, give good light output and have a wide, even beam pattern. The color you're referring to can even be achieved through bending the shield slightly if that's your thing. Yes there are other, better projectors out there. The Stanley projectors off of the TSX being of of them, but then again, we all know they aren't bi-xenons.
Comparing most OEM Xenon and OEM Bi-xenon projectors is like splitting hairs. They are all generally of high quality and 99% of the people out there don't give a crap about color and sharpness of cutoff, beam pattern, etc between OEM projectors. What does matter is when people use re-based bulbs in halogen reflector housings or even worse, aftermarket projectors like the ones made by Depo.
You didnt know the differnce until I had to show you the difference with the videos.
g35 projecto tune with a clear valeo lens to have a purple cut off.
I believe the new g35 projectors are stanleys.
movie of the flicker,
as you can see the cut off changes to different colors, outside of the tuned purple.
The effects are more apparent and distinct when you see them in person.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t=MOV00391.flv
s2000 projectors with z-tail shield mod, with multi-color flicker
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19181940891269
s2000 and tsx projectors with mirror mod
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03563680808360
I believe the new g35 projectors are stanleys.
movie of the flicker,
as you can see the cut off changes to different colors, outside of the tuned purple.
The effects are more apparent and distinct when you see them in person.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t=MOV00391.flv
s2000 projectors with z-tail shield mod, with multi-color flicker
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19181940891269
s2000 and tsx projectors with mirror mod
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03563680808360
i dont even understand why you want to keep thread hi-jacking other people's threads by talking about a dead argument.
I don't know why you keep on trying to bring it up on almost every lighting thread.
