Waterless coolants?
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Joined: Feb 2014
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From: Cyprus
W204 2012 C250 CDI
Waterless coolants?
I have bought a C250 CDI 2012.Since i live in Cyprus the weather here is very hot. As i know the turbo works better in a cold environment i am searching what can i do to help my Car to cool down more so i can have a more "power". I am thinking to put a intercooler to help the car better. while i was searching i found this. Does anyone used this product or know anything about it?
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/news/...oduct-award/86
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/news/...oduct-award/86
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I have bought a C250 CDI 2012.Since i live in Cyprus the weather here is very hot. As i know the turbo works better in a cold environment i am searching what can i do to help my Car to cool down more so i can have a more "power". I am thinking to put a intercooler to help the car better. while i was searching i found this. Does anyone used this product or know anything about it?
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/news/...oduct-award/86
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/news/...oduct-award/86
The waterless coolant sounds interesting. . I wonder whether MB approve them ?
Here is one view from :- http://www.overclock.net/t/1302628/waterless-coolant
If you look at MSDS of evans coolant, it is ethylene glycol + propylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors. Nothing special at all about it. Other then the fact it will have ~1/3 heat capacity of water and 1/3 thermal conductance of water, and will have about 1/3 flow from thick viscosity of propylene glycol, and result in huge increase in core temps. Just 50% propylene glycol + water caused 8C worse core temps in skinneelabs testing. Now imagine no water at all, just all propylene gycol and eythylene glycol, so will increase core temps by significantly more than 8C.
In our pumps, there is no boiling and no cavitation, so no use at all for glycols. If you want anticorrosion, just get concentrated inhibitors without the glycol.
No intelligent reason to put 68% glycol, 30% propylene glycol, 2% inhibitors in one's car....let alone in a computer loop where the boiling/freezing temps are completely irrelevant. The only difference in a water loop you will see is MUCH higher core temps from combination of very poor thermal properties and much reduced flow from the thick viscosity of the glycol mix.
marketing hype aside, if the stuff was so great, all car manufactures would eliminate water and run same. You can buy all the ingredients for a few bucks at any chemical plant.
Last edited by Carsy; Feb 21, 2014 at 02:47 PM.
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'11 MB C300, '93 Toyota Supra T , '12 Chevy Cruze
I agree with what has been said.
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at.
An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it!
Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at.
An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it!
Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well
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2008 C300 Sport 6 Speed Manual, 1953 Chevy Bel-Air, 2015 Audi allroad, 1963 Chevy Apache
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
Just to clarify, water is not an element. Water is a molecule comprised of elements, specifically, hydrogen and oxygen atoms in a 2:1 ratio, therefore H20 is one molecule of water. There are plenty of liquids without water in them, including another element, mercury. Solids, liquids, and gases can change state among those conditions, depending on temperature. Here is a link to a periodic table of the elements.
Last edited by Sportstick; Feb 21, 2014 at 05:49 PM.
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Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 146
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From: Cyprus
W204 2012 C250 CDI
I am certain that your C 250 CDI already has an intercooler.
The waterless coolant sounds interesting. . I wonder whether MB approve them ?
Here is one view from :- http://www.overclock.net/t/1302628/waterless-coolant
If you look at MSDS of evans coolant, it is ethylene glycol + propylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors. Nothing special at all about it. Other then the fact it will have ~1/3 heat capacity of water and 1/3 thermal conductance of water, and will have about 1/3 flow from thick viscosity of propylene glycol, and result in huge increase in core temps. Just 50% propylene glycol + water caused 8C worse core temps in skinneelabs testing. Now imagine no water at all, just all propylene gycol and eythylene glycol, so will increase core temps by significantly more than 8C.
In our pumps, there is no boiling and no cavitation, so no use at all for glycols. If you want anticorrosion, just get concentrated inhibitors without the glycol.
No intelligent reason to put 68% glycol, 30% propylene glycol, 2% inhibitors in one's car....let alone in a computer loop where the boiling/freezing temps are completely irrelevant. The only difference in a water loop you will see is MUCH higher core temps from combination of very poor thermal properties and much reduced flow from the thick viscosity of the glycol mix.
marketing hype aside, if the stuff was so great, all car manufactures would eliminate water and run same. You can buy all the ingredients for a few bucks at any chemical plant.
The waterless coolant sounds interesting. . I wonder whether MB approve them ?
Here is one view from :- http://www.overclock.net/t/1302628/waterless-coolant
If you look at MSDS of evans coolant, it is ethylene glycol + propylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors. Nothing special at all about it. Other then the fact it will have ~1/3 heat capacity of water and 1/3 thermal conductance of water, and will have about 1/3 flow from thick viscosity of propylene glycol, and result in huge increase in core temps. Just 50% propylene glycol + water caused 8C worse core temps in skinneelabs testing. Now imagine no water at all, just all propylene gycol and eythylene glycol, so will increase core temps by significantly more than 8C.
In our pumps, there is no boiling and no cavitation, so no use at all for glycols. If you want anticorrosion, just get concentrated inhibitors without the glycol.
No intelligent reason to put 68% glycol, 30% propylene glycol, 2% inhibitors in one's car....let alone in a computer loop where the boiling/freezing temps are completely irrelevant. The only difference in a water loop you will see is MUCH higher core temps from combination of very poor thermal properties and much reduced flow from the thick viscosity of the glycol mix.
marketing hype aside, if the stuff was so great, all car manufactures would eliminate water and run same. You can buy all the ingredients for a few bucks at any chemical plant.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Cyprus
W204 2012 C250 CDI
I agree with what has been said.
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at.
An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it!
Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at.
An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it!
Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Cyprus
W204 2012 C250 CDI
Guys what about Water / Methanol Injection Kits?
http://www.aemelectronics.com/water-...on-systems-52/
http://www.aemelectronics.com/water-...on-systems-52/
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2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
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Another round of ICE
Other than three of those making up one of the best bands of all time, none of them are elements according to any definition I know, so sorry if I'm a bit confused!!
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
I just looked on google. Are you an astrology fan or a Wiccan? They seem to use "element" as you suggest.
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From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
el·e·ment
ˈeləmənt/
noun
noun: element; plural noun: elements; noun: chemical element; plural noun: chemical elements
1.
a part or aspect of something abstract, esp. one that is essential or characteristic.
I am not referring to the elements of the periodic table, but as the definition states, water being a part or aspect of something. H20 itself is not an element, but a substance or a compound.
ˈeləmənt/
noun
noun: element; plural noun: elements; noun: chemical element; plural noun: chemical elements
1.
a part or aspect of something abstract, esp. one that is essential or characteristic.
I am not referring to the elements of the periodic table, but as the definition states, water being a part or aspect of something. H20 itself is not an element, but a substance or a compound.
Last edited by xXHotelCrazyXx; Feb 21, 2014 at 08:12 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,113
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
el·e·ment
ˈeləmənt/
noun
noun: element; plural noun: elements; noun: chemical element; plural noun: chemical elements
1.
a part or aspect of something abstract, esp. one that is essential or characteristic.
I am not referring to the elements of the periodic table, but as the definition states, water being a part or aspect of something. H20 itself is not an element, but a substance or a compound.
ˈeləmənt/
noun
noun: element; plural noun: elements; noun: chemical element; plural noun: chemical elements
1.
a part or aspect of something abstract, esp. one that is essential or characteristic.
I am not referring to the elements of the periodic table, but as the definition states, water being a part or aspect of something. H20 itself is not an element, but a substance or a compound.
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Likes: 1
From: Australia
C220 CDI SLK 200
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Likes: 1
From: Australia
C220 CDI SLK 200
I agree with what has been said.
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at.
An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it!
Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at.
An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it!
Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 197
Likes: 1
From: Australia
C220 CDI SLK 200
The Merlin engine fitted to Mustangs/Spitfires and many other aircraft during WW2 used Glycol cooling. This was mainly for one reason and that was water would freeze at the temperatures reached when operating at a high altitude
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From: five oh two
2008 W204 Sport
But they still used water...
"Coolant
The P-51 Maintenance
Handbook recommends a
30/70% mixture of ethylene
glycol and water for warmer
climates and a 70/30% ethylene
glycol and water for extremely
cold climates."
http://www.51-factory.com/cooling_sy...aintenance.pdf
"Coolant
The P-51 Maintenance
Handbook recommends a
30/70% mixture of ethylene
glycol and water for warmer
climates and a 70/30% ethylene
glycol and water for extremely
cold climates."
http://www.51-factory.com/cooling_sy...aintenance.pdf
Last edited by xXHotelCrazyXx; Feb 21, 2014 at 11:40 PM.
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2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I don't think the MB engineers envisaged keeping the cab cool with that temp!!.
Yes, I agree , I am amazed how the engine coolant temp never varies. Says something for the controls & radiator capacity.
JC
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Back on topic, waterless coolants are not good for most street cars.
They do not carry heat as well as a properly diluted glycol coolant.
Your car will run hotter with more variance in temp throughout the engine.
They are good for show cars that are in storage because the chance of corrosion is lower.
They do not carry heat as well as a properly diluted glycol coolant.
Your car will run hotter with more variance in temp throughout the engine.
They are good for show cars that are in storage because the chance of corrosion is lower.
