qwiksolve

Hello fellow C43 owners. I have been reading a ton of threads to collect info on what has been tried and what actually adds the highest gains. I have been looking for people that have further blueprinted their 4.3 in order to create better breathing without excessive bolt ons.

This is my first post 1995 MB motor build, I used to build up mid 80's 500 and 560 sec's which created gobs of hp and torque from porting polishing and custom cams. At my job I build custom cars, mostly pre 1970, and also provide computer tuning and mapping for late model domestics. I am a bit behind the curve on this C43, yet anxious to learn more and play a bit.

I was wondering if anyone has had their top end flow matched from the intake through to the exhaust manifolds? I am considering sending my intake, heads and manifolds to a company I use for our race motors, http://extrudehone.com.

I have been using this company to flow match my 500 and 560 motors since the castings were all in need of polishing from the inside. Prior results varied from the 5.0 and 5.6, I realized significant gains on the 5.0 and less on the 5.6. I attributed the smaller gains to better production standards from MB in their S line for those years. With the 5.0 I gained approx 39% better flow and about 66hp+ and 83 lb trq at the crank. The throttle response was wicked after changing the centerline of the cam lobes a few degrees.

Since this will be a major undertaking I was hoping someone else has already gone this route and measured their results. What I have seen of the production AMG motors is impressive, it is not the same as a special build AMG motor, but they seem to be flowing quite nice in compared to the stock 430.

Any suggestions on this subject would be much appreciated as I am also looking to custom grind cams and valves for the increased flow to actually take in a bigger charge and stay balanced.

Thanks

~Will*~

C43AMG

You may want to read this thread : https://mbworld.org/forums/c36-amg-c...oject-c43.html This my car that is being worked on.As per my agreement with the tuner, I have refrained from commenting in the thread until the complete "tune" is done.The tuner is currently working on the ECU files and when he is done I will have him do the ECU for his final results.As far as the intake, you may want to read this thread : https://mbworld.org/forums/c36-amg-c...oval-m113.html . Good luck in your quest!

ECTurboGSX

The short answer is no. Most people who own these cars and are looking to pick up a decent amount of power either swap in a 5.4L or bolt on a supercharger. I am not aware of anyone who has modified the heads dramatically.

c280_nz

yea swap in the 5.4l, and call it a day, but if you then want more go the supercharger route,
the biggest problem with tuning these engines is the ecus, you can get them chipped but that is normally a one-off and cannot be ajusted into the future easily, so a stand alone may be disired if you like full tunability,
but as they say theres no replacement for displacement

ohlord

a special build AMG engine.
One builder,one engine
His name is on it.
Extrusion hone the exhaust manifolds,and have them ceramic coated in and out.Leave the rest alone.

C43AMG

Not on our cars.

NitrogenBalance

I have to disagree on that one Ohlord. I would throw the OEM manifolds out and buy some kleemann headers/downpipes for 1500.00. Stock manis are very poor design, but are understandable from the factory.

The intake manis interior is prob to detailed and mechanical for extrude home I would think.

Don't let me stop you though ...e

qwiksolve

Thank you all for your input and thanks for the thread info from C43AMG, I am continuing to read further threads. Now it is just decisions decisions, on which direction to go?

I have already pulled the motor out and am modifying my stand to fit the motor better. I have heard the horrors of this 2+ piece intake and am already searching for the correct sealant in Germany, a friend who works for MB/AMG in Austria is attempting to locate the Cheez-wiz and send onto me.

I also am considering an e55 supercharged motor from a rear ended 2005 which I can pick up for a song and part out the rest. I am looking on ebay and craigslist, so far I found 1 motor (normal aspiration) with 143k on the clock and no signs of ever being serviced for around $5k. I can get the crashed e55 for $7500 and have some usable parts to sell. Will this motor work with current ECU and harnesses besides the needed remapping?

I have also looked in to the Kleeman headers, (and read the posts about also having them made up as a group buy) but they are not $1500, they are closer to $3k. I can make up my own for much less, the shop I work for has a mandrel and we make them often for similar tight locations. I am not looking forward to that part of the project but it will be much easier now that the motor is already out and we took measurements from port to point and port to frame.

In past projects I have flow matched factory manifolds to breath quite well and much much less cost. I am not really a big fan of headers unless they are needed for enlarged primary tubes, which in this case they will be port matched and not really enlarged and will be keeping stock valve sizes so not much of an increase in overall CFM. I have already made up a Primary cat / resonator delete and replaced it with a custom 3.5 "X" pipe and scavanger from Vibrant.

C43AMG

The E55 motor you will need is the n/a motor from the W210.That motor in our cars is unreal..traction will be you biggest issue.

suicidal4life

I gotta agree with Nitro on this one. First off a disclaimer...I've never held a C43 exhaust manifold in my hands before but I do have E430 and S430 manis in my garage. Anyway back on point. I think there is very little to be gained by extrude honing the stock exhaust manis they are not rough cast and I don't think there is much room to enlarge them. Also the design (I've heard C43 is even worse then E430) is crappy to say the least. MB left a lot on the table when they designed the manis. Headers are a big improvement!

I think there is HP to be extracted in gasket matching the intake manifold to the heads and possibly more thru thorough porting and polishing as Mbenzman and TVT have done. I also agree with Nitro that extrude hone is not the process for this as our manis are quite complicated inside.

There is probably some room for improvement in the heads and cams as well but other posters on the forum have had mixed results.

The biggest improvement is going to come from adding forced induction or a 5.5 swap.

ChicagoX

LET motorsports can reflash your ECU and tune for your mods. Soon, the handheld unit will allow you to do this yourself.

C43AMG

What type of gains are you expecting from the ECU flash and tune ?

ECTurboGSX

I'm most curious about this handheld unit. What are going to be the capabilities of that??

ChicagoX

It would depend on supporting mods. Please feel free to PM me for details.

texstar

Kwiksolve: I'm about to embark on a BUDGET build up of a 560 SEC with a euro 500 engine and read with interest your tuning experience with this motor. As it sits on the euro 500SEL this motor (no emissions gear) pulls like a train (it feels like my old 6.9 euro motor); idles very smooth and aside from needing valve stem seals and a small leak on the upper pan looks like new when I took the lower oil pan out; car had always had a diet of Mobil 1 and engine has a very rare factory engine oil cooler. Since I see a scratched left side camshaft (one central lobe only) I'm considering getting a set of better cams; from your expeience where can I get somethning like that? can I get the 5.0 cams reground for more HP/ or can I install 560 cams to gain more HP? Obviously head honing will now be done after I read your article. Since this is a BUDGET build up I'm considering doing a lot of work myself, but.... how expensive will it be for you to do the heads for me? thanks.