What does Andy @ MPH really know or do?
02-11-2009, 12:27 PM
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02-11-2009, 12:33 PM
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Let’s look at the whole picture:
ECU = Engine control unit.
TCU = Transmission control unit.
ME 9.7 = The C63 ECU.
MHP stated that you will receive a ECU and TCU tune (flash). You sent only the ECU to them. So there is no way you received a TCU tune (flash), because they never had your TCU in their hands to flash it (tune). They stated they are the only one able to do this. Not true, because the only made changes in the ECU, all the other companies also make changes to the ECU. The changes that were made in the ECU are known items to all the other companies, but they have chosen not to change them thus far. That is their choice. So to put it simple, all companies are equal on the item they can change. All the data is in each and every ME 9.7.
Now let’s look at the tuning of the ME 9.7;
MHP receives your ECU, they ship it to BG Chrysler for the tune, and then BG ships it back to either the customer or MHP. So MHP is the “middle man” in getting your ECU tuned. So if your C63 engine breaks, the transmission is spat out on the tarmac, or the LSD now become a FSD (Full slip diff. because it was weaker than the transmission) as a result of the tune, do you go to MHP or BG? You might ask, “How can that happen? What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?” Simple, they have stated that they remove the torque management ( TM) which is in place in the ECU to protect those listed items. How do we as calibrators find the limits of how much TM we can remove and still have a safe tune? We must break one.
A short storey, I was cracking the 2005 Mustang in late 2004 when it was released. The car had 50 miles on it and a 77 mm turbo kit. The kit had not been designed correctly and had a huge restriction in the exhaust system. 1st pull the car made 490 hp at 3700 rpm; the pull was cut short because the boost pegged a 30 lb boost gauge. 2nd pull, they builder made a change to the waste gate settings and said let it rip, we also installed a 100 lb boost gauge for a diesel. Ok I let it rip. Car made 580 +- hp at 5500 and this time the boost was about 42 lbs. So at that point the builder was not aware of the restriction and thought it was a waste gate problem, so he pinned the waste gate full open so that it should not make any boost, we installed a back pressure gauge in the exhaust and said make another pull. 3rd pull the car made it to about 4100 rpm and spat out 7 of the 8 rods. The engine had the same 42 lbs of boost and 35 lbs of exhaust back pressure. So the real boost of the engine was 7 lbs. All other 4.6 3 valve engines have broken in about the exact same power level, so now we (as the tuning community) know that about 600 hp, the engine will break, and we set Max power allowed in the ECU to about 550 hp.
So who has broken a C63 yet? Where are the limits to set the TM at?
Now let look at false advertising:
Excerpt taken from http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
What Constitutes False Advertising?
Advertisements that contain representations that are false, misleading, or deceptive are illegal under state and federal laws. To be found guilty of false advertising, it must be shown that the advertisement was deceptive in nature. Proof that the ad actually harmed anyone is not important. Moreover, the intentions of the advertiser are irrelevant, including if the false or deceptive advertisement was a mistake.
Excerpt take from http://www.aboutfalseadvertising.com/
False advertising is, in essence, exactly what the name implies: the passing off of goods or services (yours or a competitor’s) as something or someone’s they are not. It is the usurpation of good will and sales by unfair means. False advertising is prohibited and actionable under federal law and by various state statutes which prohibit deceptive trade practices and unfair competition. The Federal Trade Commission, competitors and– in most stations—the state attorney general have the power to bring suit to stop false advertising. In some states an aggrieved consumer can sue.
The Federal Trade Commission will initiate an action against an advertiser it believes is making false claims. These days, health and weight loss claims are high on the FTC’s agenda. Likewise, the states’ attorney generals are also capable of selecting ad claims for prosecution under state unfair competition or consumer protection statutes. A competitor can bring another’s claims to the attention of the FTC or the state attorney general, but there is no assurance any action will result.
Now you might ask: “What does this have to do with the situation at hand?”
MHP has stated that they are the only one able to tune the TCU, and this is one reason why you should use their services. That is a false statement, as they cannot tune your TCU by only having your ECU in hand. Let’s look at what action MPH competitors can take.
Excerpt take from: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
The Lanham Act
The Lanham Act is a federal statute that gives parties a private remedy for false advertising claims. To prevail on a false advertising claim under the Latham act, the injured party must prove that the advertisement is either literally false or that the ad is likely to mislead and confuse customers. Evidence of consumer confusion in the marketplace is a prerequisite for recovery under the act. Parties with successful Latham Act claims are usually awarded monetary damages and an injunction to stop the advertiser.
This would apply to the terms used by MHP, that you receive a ECU/TCU tune. Ok, MHP claims that they achieve this via the ECU, which they now admit. But what about before I came along and shined some light on the subject? They were the only game in town that could tune the TCU. Many consumers have paid for their services that they obtained due to false advertisement of “Being the only one that could offer you a TCU tune”, FALSE; all other tuning companies can offer the exact same as MHP. Many consumers made their final decision based on that MHP could tune the TCU and no one else could.
The law also states that ignorance of the law is now excuse. This applies to MHP telling everyone, until I came along, that the TCU was built into the ECU. I have read many times where they make this claim. Let’s say that MHP really believes this, then he is spreading false information, and he is supposed to be the go to guy for MB tuning.
Andy has called my counterpart and asked for all the details about me, my phone number, my address, who I work for or with, ect… What does that have to do with what I am speaking about? I have stated if you want to know about me, do your research and you will find me. But if you show up on my door step, you have taken it to a level that you will not be happy with the outcome. I will defend my house and family with deadly force. This is not a threat to ANYONE; I am only stating the outcome. My family has nothing to do with this matter. I am stating cold hard facts that cannot be disputed. I have not made any claims that I have not backed up 100% on this forum. I have asked anyone to prove me wrong on anything that I have said, and I would take it like a man and admit my mistake. But I researched many days prior to speaking the first word on here. I have taken verbal abuse from many members, and I do not hold a grudge against them either. They might not understand the reason that I have posted here. Many think that I just come here to attack Andy/MHP. That is not entirely true, yes I lashed at him, I had no idea that he was on suspension either. I have not had any contact with any of his competitors prior to my first post about anything of the facts that I have stated. Since that post, I have had MANY members, some that have not even posted in this thread, thank me for exposing this fraud. Did I do it to harm Andy/MHP? No, I did this because he was running and unethical ad campaign and I thought that the MB owners would like to know the real story. So in short, many MB owners have paid about $2500 extra for the TCU tune that they never received. Yes you received shifting enhancements in the ECU tune, but not the FULL TCU tune you have paid extra for.
MPH has stated that they have a money back guarantee, so there should not be a problem with them refunding your money and returning your ECU to factory original state. And then you (as the consumer) can have your ECU tuned by anyone that you desire and receive exactly what you pay for.
Folks this is my very last post on this forum. I came here to help the community, and I got slammed from every direction. Someone said that they need payment for lost productivity, I charge about $200-300 an hour for my work; I have already spent about 30 hours in this venture, and will never see a return on even 1 minute that I have spent helping you MB owners out. I did not ask for any money either. So in short, I hope that all turns out well for all of you MB owners, MPH clean up your act and make some real honest cash, and all of the other tuners, use this as an example of what happens when you deceive the public about your product.
Take care,
Tim
ECU = Engine control unit.
TCU = Transmission control unit.
ME 9.7 = The C63 ECU.
MHP stated that you will receive a ECU and TCU tune (flash). You sent only the ECU to them. So there is no way you received a TCU tune (flash), because they never had your TCU in their hands to flash it (tune). They stated they are the only one able to do this. Not true, because the only made changes in the ECU, all the other companies also make changes to the ECU. The changes that were made in the ECU are known items to all the other companies, but they have chosen not to change them thus far. That is their choice. So to put it simple, all companies are equal on the item they can change. All the data is in each and every ME 9.7.
Now let’s look at the tuning of the ME 9.7;
MHP receives your ECU, they ship it to BG Chrysler for the tune, and then BG ships it back to either the customer or MHP. So MHP is the “middle man” in getting your ECU tuned. So if your C63 engine breaks, the transmission is spat out on the tarmac, or the LSD now become a FSD (Full slip diff. because it was weaker than the transmission) as a result of the tune, do you go to MHP or BG? You might ask, “How can that happen? What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?” Simple, they have stated that they remove the torque management ( TM) which is in place in the ECU to protect those listed items. How do we as calibrators find the limits of how much TM we can remove and still have a safe tune? We must break one.
A short storey, I was cracking the 2005 Mustang in late 2004 when it was released. The car had 50 miles on it and a 77 mm turbo kit. The kit had not been designed correctly and had a huge restriction in the exhaust system. 1st pull the car made 490 hp at 3700 rpm; the pull was cut short because the boost pegged a 30 lb boost gauge. 2nd pull, they builder made a change to the waste gate settings and said let it rip, we also installed a 100 lb boost gauge for a diesel. Ok I let it rip. Car made 580 +- hp at 5500 and this time the boost was about 42 lbs. So at that point the builder was not aware of the restriction and thought it was a waste gate problem, so he pinned the waste gate full open so that it should not make any boost, we installed a back pressure gauge in the exhaust and said make another pull. 3rd pull the car made it to about 4100 rpm and spat out 7 of the 8 rods. The engine had the same 42 lbs of boost and 35 lbs of exhaust back pressure. So the real boost of the engine was 7 lbs. All other 4.6 3 valve engines have broken in about the exact same power level, so now we (as the tuning community) know that about 600 hp, the engine will break, and we set Max power allowed in the ECU to about 550 hp.
So who has broken a C63 yet? Where are the limits to set the TM at?
Now let look at false advertising:
Excerpt taken from http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
What Constitutes False Advertising?
Advertisements that contain representations that are false, misleading, or deceptive are illegal under state and federal laws. To be found guilty of false advertising, it must be shown that the advertisement was deceptive in nature. Proof that the ad actually harmed anyone is not important. Moreover, the intentions of the advertiser are irrelevant, including if the false or deceptive advertisement was a mistake.
Excerpt take from http://www.aboutfalseadvertising.com/
False advertising is, in essence, exactly what the name implies: the passing off of goods or services (yours or a competitor’s) as something or someone’s they are not. It is the usurpation of good will and sales by unfair means. False advertising is prohibited and actionable under federal law and by various state statutes which prohibit deceptive trade practices and unfair competition. The Federal Trade Commission, competitors and– in most stations—the state attorney general have the power to bring suit to stop false advertising. In some states an aggrieved consumer can sue.
The Federal Trade Commission will initiate an action against an advertiser it believes is making false claims. These days, health and weight loss claims are high on the FTC’s agenda. Likewise, the states’ attorney generals are also capable of selecting ad claims for prosecution under state unfair competition or consumer protection statutes. A competitor can bring another’s claims to the attention of the FTC or the state attorney general, but there is no assurance any action will result.
Now you might ask: “What does this have to do with the situation at hand?”
MHP has stated that they are the only one able to tune the TCU, and this is one reason why you should use their services. That is a false statement, as they cannot tune your TCU by only having your ECU in hand. Let’s look at what action MPH competitors can take.
Excerpt take from: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
The Lanham Act
The Lanham Act is a federal statute that gives parties a private remedy for false advertising claims. To prevail on a false advertising claim under the Latham act, the injured party must prove that the advertisement is either literally false or that the ad is likely to mislead and confuse customers. Evidence of consumer confusion in the marketplace is a prerequisite for recovery under the act. Parties with successful Latham Act claims are usually awarded monetary damages and an injunction to stop the advertiser.
This would apply to the terms used by MHP, that you receive a ECU/TCU tune. Ok, MHP claims that they achieve this via the ECU, which they now admit. But what about before I came along and shined some light on the subject? They were the only game in town that could tune the TCU. Many consumers have paid for their services that they obtained due to false advertisement of “Being the only one that could offer you a TCU tune”, FALSE; all other tuning companies can offer the exact same as MHP. Many consumers made their final decision based on that MHP could tune the TCU and no one else could.
The law also states that ignorance of the law is now excuse. This applies to MHP telling everyone, until I came along, that the TCU was built into the ECU. I have read many times where they make this claim. Let’s say that MHP really believes this, then he is spreading false information, and he is supposed to be the go to guy for MB tuning.
Andy has called my counterpart and asked for all the details about me, my phone number, my address, who I work for or with, ect… What does that have to do with what I am speaking about? I have stated if you want to know about me, do your research and you will find me. But if you show up on my door step, you have taken it to a level that you will not be happy with the outcome. I will defend my house and family with deadly force. This is not a threat to ANYONE; I am only stating the outcome. My family has nothing to do with this matter. I am stating cold hard facts that cannot be disputed. I have not made any claims that I have not backed up 100% on this forum. I have asked anyone to prove me wrong on anything that I have said, and I would take it like a man and admit my mistake. But I researched many days prior to speaking the first word on here. I have taken verbal abuse from many members, and I do not hold a grudge against them either. They might not understand the reason that I have posted here. Many think that I just come here to attack Andy/MHP. That is not entirely true, yes I lashed at him, I had no idea that he was on suspension either. I have not had any contact with any of his competitors prior to my first post about anything of the facts that I have stated. Since that post, I have had MANY members, some that have not even posted in this thread, thank me for exposing this fraud. Did I do it to harm Andy/MHP? No, I did this because he was running and unethical ad campaign and I thought that the MB owners would like to know the real story. So in short, many MB owners have paid about $2500 extra for the TCU tune that they never received. Yes you received shifting enhancements in the ECU tune, but not the FULL TCU tune you have paid extra for.
MPH has stated that they have a money back guarantee, so there should not be a problem with them refunding your money and returning your ECU to factory original state. And then you (as the consumer) can have your ECU tuned by anyone that you desire and receive exactly what you pay for.
Folks this is my very last post on this forum. I came here to help the community, and I got slammed from every direction. Someone said that they need payment for lost productivity, I charge about $200-300 an hour for my work; I have already spent about 30 hours in this venture, and will never see a return on even 1 minute that I have spent helping you MB owners out. I did not ask for any money either. So in short, I hope that all turns out well for all of you MB owners, MPH clean up your act and make some real honest cash, and all of the other tuners, use this as an example of what happens when you deceive the public about your product.
Take care,
Tim
02-11-2009, 01:01 PM
#304
I can understand that perception. However, the truth is the ultimate defense. I think your statement will prove itself to be quite false in the next few days.
Evosport is not a material party in all of this, but we have seen first hand a few things that make me sick. I came into this industry to make it fun and be better then the shops that I was using when I was a kid. All of my partners and I gave up 6-figure salaries to do this company. We have advanced degrees from top schools and we were in the professional world. Seeing what has happened to a few people disappointments me and saddens me that our industry is like that, and more so that people will defend what they don't know based on assumption, hearsay and a justification of their spending.
Personally, I work off of facts. I believe half of what I hear and question what I see. But when you forensically direct problematic issues and all the arrows point the same direction, it becomes compelling.
It is not my story to tell, but it will be told I suspect shortly and it should clarify a lot of the questions that people have.
As for who people should believe, well I guess that is a hard one. I tend to look at people who post with REAL names, people who have LONG established ties to the industry and to look at the motivation of people.
I am not sure how this turned into an evosport v. MHP thing, as it is hardly that. We are not a software tuner or provider. We re-sell Powerchip. I don't have a dog in this hunt. And in fact, JRCart bought Powerchip software a LONG time ago, and as a Powerchip customer, you can always get the latest tune for a re-flash fee of $100-150. He has chosen to do that, and he can tell you why.
It also is not a Powerchip/Renntech/LET/etc v. MHP thing. Nobody is using this thread to promote another source. This thread was started by someone speaking about their findings on ONE vendor.
thanks
Brad
Evosport is not a material party in all of this, but we have seen first hand a few things that make me sick. I came into this industry to make it fun and be better then the shops that I was using when I was a kid. All of my partners and I gave up 6-figure salaries to do this company. We have advanced degrees from top schools and we were in the professional world. Seeing what has happened to a few people disappointments me and saddens me that our industry is like that, and more so that people will defend what they don't know based on assumption, hearsay and a justification of their spending.
Personally, I work off of facts. I believe half of what I hear and question what I see. But when you forensically direct problematic issues and all the arrows point the same direction, it becomes compelling.
It is not my story to tell, but it will be told I suspect shortly and it should clarify a lot of the questions that people have.
As for who people should believe, well I guess that is a hard one. I tend to look at people who post with REAL names, people who have LONG established ties to the industry and to look at the motivation of people.
I am not sure how this turned into an evosport v. MHP thing, as it is hardly that. We are not a software tuner or provider. We re-sell Powerchip. I don't have a dog in this hunt. And in fact, JRCart bought Powerchip software a LONG time ago, and as a Powerchip customer, you can always get the latest tune for a re-flash fee of $100-150. He has chosen to do that, and he can tell you why.
It also is not a Powerchip/Renntech/LET/etc v. MHP thing. Nobody is using this thread to promote another source. This thread was started by someone speaking about their findings on ONE vendor.
thanks
Brad
To claim that you have no direct interest in this is disingenuous. You obviously offer the Powerchip tune to your customers, and I assume make a profit from that service. I would expect that you would want to offer your customers the best tune available on the market? To say that you "don't have a dog in this hunt" is silly.
02-11-2009, 01:02 PM
#305
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e550 4m
If an Evosport Tune blows your car up do you goto Evosport or Power Chips?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
02-11-2009, 01:06 PM
#306
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If an Evosport Tune blows your car up do you goto Evosport or Power Chips?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
Whether Powerchip/Evosport (or anyone else) is doing the same thing is a completely separate issue.
02-11-2009, 01:06 PM
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Gremlin
If an Evosport Tune blows your car up do you goto Evosport or Power Chips?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
02-11-2009, 01:16 PM
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But I don't think this is meant to be a MHP vs. Powerchip comparison. It's simply dealing with the allegation that MHP has misrepresented what it's doing for its customers.
Whether Powerchip/Evosport (or anyone else) is doing the same thing is a completely separate issue.
Whether Powerchip/Evosport (or anyone else) is doing the same thing is a completely separate issue.
what the hell, is that what it is?
i thought MHP was stealing EVOSports tunes - that is why jrcart is saying his tune (on his ecu) was exactly the same as evosports. or am i wrong?
then there is the TCU tune issue - that apparently can not be done, but its a moot point because andy said it would do 1, 2 and 3 and called it an TCU tune - Tim is saying by strict definition it is not a "TCU tune or flash". (view freedom fries post below)
I and Mthis know that it did do 1, 2 and 3 and that is what Andy promised. - unless its in our heads....any stock C63 drivers out in the fraser valley?
to me the tcu issue is whatever, i got what he said and someone doesnt like what he calls it (petty) ... if i paid too much for it, thats my fault not andy, why doesnt someone start a thread on why the sl65's are overpriced and a not even close to the sum of the parts?
Last edited by stefario; 02-11-2009 at 01:37 PM.
02-11-2009, 01:17 PM
#313
MBWorld Fanatic!
Let’s look at the whole picture:
ECU = Engine control unit.
TCU = Transmission control unit.
ME 9.7 = The C63 ECU.
MHP stated that you will receive a ECU and TCU tune (flash). You sent only the ECU to them. So there is no way you received a TCU tune (flash), because they never had your TCU in their hands to flash it (tune). They stated they are the only one able to do this. Not true, because the only made changes in the ECU, all the other companies also make changes to the ECU. The changes that were made in the ECU are known items to all the other companies, but they have chosen not to change them thus far. That is their choice. So to put it simple, all companies are equal on the item they can change. All the data is in each and every ME 9.7.
Now let’s look at the tuning of the ME 9.7;
MHP receives your ECU, they ship it to BG Chrysler for the tune, and then BG ships it back to either the customer or MHP. So MHP is the “middle man” in getting your ECU tuned. So if your C63 engine breaks, the transmission is spat out on the tarmac, or the LSD now become a FSD (Full slip diff. because it was weaker than the transmission) as a result of the tune, do you go to MHP or BG? You might ask, “How can that happen? What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?” Simple, they have stated that they remove the torque management ( TM) which is in place in the ECU to protect those listed items. How do we as calibrators find the limits of how much TM we can remove and still have a safe tune? We must break one.
A short storey, I was cracking the 2005 Mustang in late 2004 when it was released. The car had 50 miles on it and a 77 mm turbo kit. The kit had not been designed correctly and had a huge restriction in the exhaust system. 1st pull the car made 490 hp at 3700 rpm; the pull was cut short because the boost pegged a 30 lb boost gauge. 2nd pull, they builder made a change to the waste gate settings and said let it rip, we also installed a 100 lb boost gauge for a diesel. Ok I let it rip. Car made 580 +- hp at 5500 and this time the boost was about 42 lbs. So at that point the builder was not aware of the restriction and thought it was a waste gate problem, so he pinned the waste gate full open so that it should not make any boost, we installed a back pressure gauge in the exhaust and said make another pull. 3rd pull the car made it to about 4100 rpm and spat out 7 of the 8 rods. The engine had the same 42 lbs of boost and 35 lbs of exhaust back pressure. So the real boost of the engine was 7 lbs. All other 4.6 3 valve engines have broken in about the exact same power level, so now we (as the tuning community) know that about 600 hp, the engine will break, and we set Max power allowed in the ECU to about 550 hp.
So who has broken a C63 yet? Where are the limits to set the TM at?
Now let look at false advertising:
Excerpt taken from http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
What Constitutes False Advertising?
Advertisements that contain representations that are false, misleading, or deceptive are illegal under state and federal laws. To be found guilty of false advertising, it must be shown that the advertisement was deceptive in nature. Proof that the ad actually harmed anyone is not important. Moreover, the intentions of the advertiser are irrelevant, including if the false or deceptive advertisement was a mistake.
Excerpt take from http://www.aboutfalseadvertising.com/
False advertising is, in essence, exactly what the name implies: the passing off of goods or services (yours or a competitor’s) as something or someone’s they are not. It is the usurpation of good will and sales by unfair means. False advertising is prohibited and actionable under federal law and by various state statutes which prohibit deceptive trade practices and unfair competition. The Federal Trade Commission, competitors and– in most stations—the state attorney general have the power to bring suit to stop false advertising. In some states an aggrieved consumer can sue.
The Federal Trade Commission will initiate an action against an advertiser it believes is making false claims. These days, health and weight loss claims are high on the FTC’s agenda. Likewise, the states’ attorney generals are also capable of selecting ad claims for prosecution under state unfair competition or consumer protection statutes. A competitor can bring another’s claims to the attention of the FTC or the state attorney general, but there is no assurance any action will result.
Now you might ask: “What does this have to do with the situation at hand?”
MHP has stated that they are the only one able to tune the TCU, and this is one reason why you should use their services. That is a false statement, as they cannot tune your TCU by only having your ECU in hand. Let’s look at what action MPH competitors can take.
Excerpt take from: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
The Lanham Act
The Lanham Act is a federal statute that gives parties a private remedy for false advertising claims. To prevail on a false advertising claim under the Latham act, the injured party must prove that the advertisement is either literally false or that the ad is likely to mislead and confuse customers. Evidence of consumer confusion in the marketplace is a prerequisite for recovery under the act. Parties with successful Latham Act claims are usually awarded monetary damages and an injunction to stop the advertiser.
This would apply to the terms used by MHP, that you receive a ECU/TCU tune. Ok, MHP claims that they achieve this via the ECU, which they now admit. But what about before I came along and shined some light on the subject? They were the only game in town that could tune the TCU. Many consumers have paid for their services that they obtained due to false advertisement of “Being the only one that could offer you a TCU tune”, FALSE; all other tuning companies can offer the exact same as MHP. Many consumers made their final decision based on that MHP could tune the TCU and no one else could.
The law also states that ignorance of the law is now excuse. This applies to MHP telling everyone, until I came along, that the TCU was built into the ECU. I have read many times where they make this claim. Let’s say that MHP really believes this, then he is spreading false information, and he is supposed to be the go to guy for MB tuning.
Andy has called my counterpart and asked for all the details about me, my phone number, my address, who I work for or with, ect… What does that have to do with what I am speaking about? I have stated if you want to know about me, do your research and you will find me. But if you show up on my door step, you have taken it to a level that you will not be happy with the outcome. I will defend my house and family with deadly force. This is not a threat to ANYONE; I am only stating the outcome. My family has nothing to do with this matter. I am stating cold hard facts that cannot be disputed. I have not made any claims that I have not backed up 100% on this forum. I have asked anyone to prove me wrong on anything that I have said, and I would take it like a man and admit my mistake. But I researched many days prior to speaking the first word on here. I have taken verbal abuse from many members, and I do not hold a grudge against them either. They might not understand the reason that I have posted here. Many think that I just come here to attack Andy/MHP. That is not entirely true, yes I lashed at him, I had no idea that he was on suspension either. I have not had any contact with any of his competitors prior to my first post about anything of the facts that I have stated. Since that post, I have had MANY members, some that have not even posted in this thread, thank me for exposing this fraud. Did I do it to harm Andy/MHP? No, I did this because he was running and unethical ad campaign and I thought that the MB owners would like to know the real story. So in short, many MB owners have paid about $2500 extra for the TCU tune that they never received. Yes you received shifting enhancements in the ECU tune, but not the FULL TCU tune you have paid extra for.
MPH has stated that they have a money back guarantee, so there should not be a problem with them refunding your money and returning your ECU to factory original state. And then you (as the consumer) can have your ECU tuned by anyone that you desire and receive exactly what you pay for.
Folks this is my very last post on this forum. I came here to help the community, and I got slammed from every direction. Someone said that they need payment for lost productivity, I charge about $200-300 an hour for my work; I have already spent about 30 hours in this venture, and will never see a return on even 1 minute that I have spent helping you MB owners out. I did not ask for any money either. So in short, I hope that all turns out well for all of you MB owners, MPH clean up your act and make some real honest cash, and all of the other tuners, use this as an example of what happens when you deceive the public about your product.
Take care,
Tim
ECU = Engine control unit.
TCU = Transmission control unit.
ME 9.7 = The C63 ECU.
MHP stated that you will receive a ECU and TCU tune (flash). You sent only the ECU to them. So there is no way you received a TCU tune (flash), because they never had your TCU in their hands to flash it (tune). They stated they are the only one able to do this. Not true, because the only made changes in the ECU, all the other companies also make changes to the ECU. The changes that were made in the ECU are known items to all the other companies, but they have chosen not to change them thus far. That is their choice. So to put it simple, all companies are equal on the item they can change. All the data is in each and every ME 9.7.
Now let’s look at the tuning of the ME 9.7;
MHP receives your ECU, they ship it to BG Chrysler for the tune, and then BG ships it back to either the customer or MHP. So MHP is the “middle man” in getting your ECU tuned. So if your C63 engine breaks, the transmission is spat out on the tarmac, or the LSD now become a FSD (Full slip diff. because it was weaker than the transmission) as a result of the tune, do you go to MHP or BG? You might ask, “How can that happen? What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?” Simple, they have stated that they remove the torque management ( TM) which is in place in the ECU to protect those listed items. How do we as calibrators find the limits of how much TM we can remove and still have a safe tune? We must break one.
A short storey, I was cracking the 2005 Mustang in late 2004 when it was released. The car had 50 miles on it and a 77 mm turbo kit. The kit had not been designed correctly and had a huge restriction in the exhaust system. 1st pull the car made 490 hp at 3700 rpm; the pull was cut short because the boost pegged a 30 lb boost gauge. 2nd pull, they builder made a change to the waste gate settings and said let it rip, we also installed a 100 lb boost gauge for a diesel. Ok I let it rip. Car made 580 +- hp at 5500 and this time the boost was about 42 lbs. So at that point the builder was not aware of the restriction and thought it was a waste gate problem, so he pinned the waste gate full open so that it should not make any boost, we installed a back pressure gauge in the exhaust and said make another pull. 3rd pull the car made it to about 4100 rpm and spat out 7 of the 8 rods. The engine had the same 42 lbs of boost and 35 lbs of exhaust back pressure. So the real boost of the engine was 7 lbs. All other 4.6 3 valve engines have broken in about the exact same power level, so now we (as the tuning community) know that about 600 hp, the engine will break, and we set Max power allowed in the ECU to about 550 hp.
So who has broken a C63 yet? Where are the limits to set the TM at?
Now let look at false advertising:
Excerpt taken from http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
What Constitutes False Advertising?
Advertisements that contain representations that are false, misleading, or deceptive are illegal under state and federal laws. To be found guilty of false advertising, it must be shown that the advertisement was deceptive in nature. Proof that the ad actually harmed anyone is not important. Moreover, the intentions of the advertiser are irrelevant, including if the false or deceptive advertisement was a mistake.
Excerpt take from http://www.aboutfalseadvertising.com/
False advertising is, in essence, exactly what the name implies: the passing off of goods or services (yours or a competitor’s) as something or someone’s they are not. It is the usurpation of good will and sales by unfair means. False advertising is prohibited and actionable under federal law and by various state statutes which prohibit deceptive trade practices and unfair competition. The Federal Trade Commission, competitors and– in most stations—the state attorney general have the power to bring suit to stop false advertising. In some states an aggrieved consumer can sue.
The Federal Trade Commission will initiate an action against an advertiser it believes is making false claims. These days, health and weight loss claims are high on the FTC’s agenda. Likewise, the states’ attorney generals are also capable of selecting ad claims for prosecution under state unfair competition or consumer protection statutes. A competitor can bring another’s claims to the attention of the FTC or the state attorney general, but there is no assurance any action will result.
Now you might ask: “What does this have to do with the situation at hand?”
MHP has stated that they are the only one able to tune the TCU, and this is one reason why you should use their services. That is a false statement, as they cannot tune your TCU by only having your ECU in hand. Let’s look at what action MPH competitors can take.
Excerpt take from: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...vertising.html
The Lanham Act
The Lanham Act is a federal statute that gives parties a private remedy for false advertising claims. To prevail on a false advertising claim under the Latham act, the injured party must prove that the advertisement is either literally false or that the ad is likely to mislead and confuse customers. Evidence of consumer confusion in the marketplace is a prerequisite for recovery under the act. Parties with successful Latham Act claims are usually awarded monetary damages and an injunction to stop the advertiser.
This would apply to the terms used by MHP, that you receive a ECU/TCU tune. Ok, MHP claims that they achieve this via the ECU, which they now admit. But what about before I came along and shined some light on the subject? They were the only game in town that could tune the TCU. Many consumers have paid for their services that they obtained due to false advertisement of “Being the only one that could offer you a TCU tune”, FALSE; all other tuning companies can offer the exact same as MHP. Many consumers made their final decision based on that MHP could tune the TCU and no one else could.
The law also states that ignorance of the law is now excuse. This applies to MHP telling everyone, until I came along, that the TCU was built into the ECU. I have read many times where they make this claim. Let’s say that MHP really believes this, then he is spreading false information, and he is supposed to be the go to guy for MB tuning.
Andy has called my counterpart and asked for all the details about me, my phone number, my address, who I work for or with, ect… What does that have to do with what I am speaking about? I have stated if you want to know about me, do your research and you will find me. But if you show up on my door step, you have taken it to a level that you will not be happy with the outcome. I will defend my house and family with deadly force. This is not a threat to ANYONE; I am only stating the outcome. My family has nothing to do with this matter. I am stating cold hard facts that cannot be disputed. I have not made any claims that I have not backed up 100% on this forum. I have asked anyone to prove me wrong on anything that I have said, and I would take it like a man and admit my mistake. But I researched many days prior to speaking the first word on here. I have taken verbal abuse from many members, and I do not hold a grudge against them either. They might not understand the reason that I have posted here. Many think that I just come here to attack Andy/MHP. That is not entirely true, yes I lashed at him, I had no idea that he was on suspension either. I have not had any contact with any of his competitors prior to my first post about anything of the facts that I have stated. Since that post, I have had MANY members, some that have not even posted in this thread, thank me for exposing this fraud. Did I do it to harm Andy/MHP? No, I did this because he was running and unethical ad campaign and I thought that the MB owners would like to know the real story. So in short, many MB owners have paid about $2500 extra for the TCU tune that they never received. Yes you received shifting enhancements in the ECU tune, but not the FULL TCU tune you have paid extra for.
MPH has stated that they have a money back guarantee, so there should not be a problem with them refunding your money and returning your ECU to factory original state. And then you (as the consumer) can have your ECU tuned by anyone that you desire and receive exactly what you pay for.
Folks this is my very last post on this forum. I came here to help the community, and I got slammed from every direction. Someone said that they need payment for lost productivity, I charge about $200-300 an hour for my work; I have already spent about 30 hours in this venture, and will never see a return on even 1 minute that I have spent helping you MB owners out. I did not ask for any money either. So in short, I hope that all turns out well for all of you MB owners, MPH clean up your act and make some real honest cash, and all of the other tuners, use this as an example of what happens when you deceive the public about your product.
Take care,
Tim
Also, I have to say you have been professional about your posts and replys and did not resort to insults which is commendable.
02-11-2009, 01:24 PM
#314
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2013 ML63 AMG PP
This thread is a wee bit too long now....
Chips, Freedom Fries, etc..They are still called French Fries in many places but they aren't really from France (unless you are eating them in France
), hence...not really French, but they taste real good! As long as you are happy does it really matter?
), hence...not really French, but they taste real good! As long as you are happy does it really matter?
02-11-2009, 01:33 PM
#315
02-11-2009, 01:37 PM
#316
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R8
Well, to use your bad analogy, I think some people started choking on the oil used in the Freedom Fries, and the makers of French Fries deemed them unsafe and not really a different type of fry as promised. Then George Bush who initially called for everyone to eat Freedom Fries decided that the French weren't so bad after all, and the fries are really the same thing, so he's going back to eating French Fries.
02-11-2009, 01:45 PM
#317
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If an Evosport Tune blows your car up do you goto Evosport or Power Chips?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
There are some valid points in jrcarts post and tims last one, bottom line is no one knows if Evosport is fooling jrcart with the tune info pulled .. i dont care how it could or couldnt be done - thats my bottom line.
the only way to know for sure is to have someone else with MHP tune and someone with Evosport tune goto a third party and have them read and compare.
I am pretty confident andy would go for it - wlll Evosport?
02-11-2009, 01:52 PM
#318
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e550 4m
How could Evosport or Powerchip be "fooling me"? My car exhibited a problem/symptom that is 100% unique to a Powerchip tune, which is a direct result of a glitch/problem/mistake in some of their early 63 Black Series tunes. It would be virtually impossible for that same sequence of codes to arise on a stock tune or any other tuners tunes...for lack of a better term they slightly F'ed up and that F up resulted in the limp mode problems in my car as well as several other Powerchip tune equiped Black Series'....Furthermore, Powerchip had no access to my car or ECU before the limp home mode situation at the track. Once again I trailered my car from Dallas to SoCal, the car was in my possesion locked in my trailer until I unloaded it at Willow Springs Raceway the morning of January 15th, my car went into limp mode on the 4th or 5th lap of the morning and did so numerous times throughout the day with multiple people behind the wheel when it happened. So unless Powerchip can tune ECU via osmosis or via radio waves or somehow do it without plugging anything into my car thare is no way they either stole an MHP tune or erased one.
the MHP v3 showed better results but you had also installed other parts during the v2 to v3 upgrade so you are not sure if the ecu flash really did anything.
Was there a difference between the original Evosport and the MHP v2?
02-11-2009, 01:55 PM
#319
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How could Evosport or Powerchip be "fooling me"? My car exhibited a problem/symptom that is 100% unique to a Powerchip tune, which is a direct result of a glitch/problem/mistake in some of their early 63 Black Series tunes. It would be virtually impossible for that same sequence of codes to arise on a stock tune or any other tuners tunes...for lack of a better term they slightly F'ed up and that F up resulted in the limp mode problems in my car as well as several other Powerchip tune equiped Black Series'....Furthermore, Powerchip had no access to my car or ECU before the limp home mode situation at the track. Once again I trailered my car from Dallas to SoCal, the car was in my possesion locked in my trailer until I unloaded it at Willow Springs Raceway the morning of January 15th, my car went into limp mode on the 4th or 5th lap of the morning and did so numerous times throughout the day with multiple people behind the wheel when it happened. So unless Powerchip can tune ECU via osmosis or via radio waves or somehow do it without plugging anything into my car thare is no way they either stole an MHP tune or erased one.
Do both cars in question run h&r springs and have the car sitting lower than stock? Shocks are adjusted stiffer or re-valved? Alignment specs are changed?
02-11-2009, 02:09 PM
#320
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Steel Gray 09' C63 AMG
IT does seem in part that we are dealing with word semantics.
At this point it does seem that Andy/MHD "stacked the truth" a little on the statement that he could "tune" the TCU. Andy/MHP should have used a better choice of words that described the work his company was performing. If he was performing "tuning" work that others were not, than so be it and charge more for it. However, he should have been more clear about the tuning he has doing but in no way required to spell it out word for word. As for the price of the TCU tuning, well it was a little excessive, but that is his right. You have something to sell, you set the price. IF someone wants to buy it then that's on them and only them. But as everyone has heard it is possible and Andy was able to change some of the settings that deal with the TCU as a whole. To me the fact he is a "middle man" in the deal is a non-factor. As a former manufacture of parts for the Automotive Aftermarket, it was always common for us to use an outside manufacture from time to time to make some of our parts. We would come up with a concept or idea then search out the best company to make said parts. It was also and is also common practice for a company to "private label" parts or to say a parts is made by them when in fact it is only exclusively made for them by someone else. What I am saying here is Andy /MHP could have done a better job marketing his product and choosing his words but to say he was an out and out fraud or hack is still much to early to make such a damaging claim. The story continues, we shall see. I am not and will not voice a final option on this matter until the end.
Here is an example: This post seems a lot like saying that adding a performance exhaust to a car "makes horsepower". The exhaust system, it in it's self makes no power at all. The exhaust is not some mechanical moving machine. By adding the exhaust system you only "free up" power that the engine is already making and has always made.
So what does my above statement mean, well it means the term "making horsepower" or "freeing up horsepower" is one in the same as it pertains to the above statement.
IT looks like we are comparing a red apple to a green apple. Guess what, they are different colors but they are still both apples.
-Troy
At this point it does seem that Andy/MHD "stacked the truth" a little on the statement that he could "tune" the TCU. Andy/MHP should have used a better choice of words that described the work his company was performing. If he was performing "tuning" work that others were not, than so be it and charge more for it. However, he should have been more clear about the tuning he has doing but in no way required to spell it out word for word. As for the price of the TCU tuning, well it was a little excessive, but that is his right. You have something to sell, you set the price. IF someone wants to buy it then that's on them and only them. But as everyone has heard it is possible and Andy was able to change some of the settings that deal with the TCU as a whole. To me the fact he is a "middle man" in the deal is a non-factor. As a former manufacture of parts for the Automotive Aftermarket, it was always common for us to use an outside manufacture from time to time to make some of our parts. We would come up with a concept or idea then search out the best company to make said parts. It was also and is also common practice for a company to "private label" parts or to say a parts is made by them when in fact it is only exclusively made for them by someone else. What I am saying here is Andy /MHP could have done a better job marketing his product and choosing his words but to say he was an out and out fraud or hack is still much to early to make such a damaging claim. The story continues, we shall see. I am not and will not voice a final option on this matter until the end.
Here is an example: This post seems a lot like saying that adding a performance exhaust to a car "makes horsepower". The exhaust system, it in it's self makes no power at all. The exhaust is not some mechanical moving machine. By adding the exhaust system you only "free up" power that the engine is already making and has always made.
So what does my above statement mean, well it means the term "making horsepower" or "freeing up horsepower" is one in the same as it pertains to the above statement.
IT looks like we are comparing a red apple to a green apple. Guess what, they are different colors but they are still both apples.
-Troy
02-11-2009, 02:11 PM
#321
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
How could Evosport or Powerchip be "fooling me"? My car exhibited a problem/symptom that is 100% unique to a Powerchip tune, which is a direct result of a glitch/problem/mistake in some of their early 63 Black Series tunes. It would be virtually impossible for that same sequence of codes to arise on a stock tune or any other tuners tunes...for lack of a better term they slightly F'ed up and that F up resulted in the limp mode problems in my car as well as several other Powerchip tune equiped Black Series'....Furthermore, Powerchip had no access to my car or ECU before the limp home mode situation at the track. Once again I trailered my car from Dallas to SoCal, the car was in my possesion locked in my trailer until I unloaded it at Willow Springs Raceway the morning of January 15th, my car went into limp mode on the 4th or 5th lap of the morning and did so numerous times throughout the day with multiple people behind the wheel when it happened. So unless Powerchip can tune ECU via osmosis or via radio waves or somehow do it without plugging anything into my car thare is no way they either stole an MHP tune or erased one.
The question raised (either here or the other thread, can't keep 'em straight) that to me was intriguing is "when MHP tried to update jrcart's tune to v3 prior to your Willow track day, could they have inadvertently flashed you back to the Powerchip tune?"
To offer the money back guarantee, they would have to make a back-up of the file that was on the car's ECU when they got it (one would think). So, presumably, they have a file saved called "Jim, stock" and others like "Jim, v2, non-NOS," "Jim, v2, NOS" etc. Possible that Dave Kasper keyed the wrong file to be flashed, and instead flashed it back to stock? The names could just as easily be "Jim_X024F5" "Jim_Y64CZ2" etc - only Dave or perhaps Andy would know.
As for jrcart's concerns regarding the NOS tune, sounds like a separate "is it safe?" issue - but sounds like it was indeed an MHP proprietary tune... correct? If it didn't have identical "f'd up" coding issues as the early PC tune, then it lends credibility to the point that MHP isn't simply stealing PC tunes and passing them off as their own.
The third issue seems to be "is MHP's mail order ECU/TCU tuning false advertising, as it does not change settings in the TCM, rather it alters tranny/shift settings in the ECU that other tuners choose to leave stock" - some customer feedback seems to suggest "hey, it does what I was told it would do... the name used to differentiate this from other tuners is semantics" - that said, potential customers seem a bit taken aback, and are less likely to pursue an MHP tuning solution. Not sure if I missed anything...
02-11-2009, 02:13 PM
#322
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got it...so you had an Evosport Tune, when to MHP v2, then to MHP v3, then now going back to Evosport
the MHP v3 showed better results but you had also installed other parts during the v2 to v3 upgrade so you are not sure if the ecu flash really did anything.
Was there a difference between the original Evosport and the MHP v2?
the MHP v3 showed better results but you had also installed other parts during the v2 to v3 upgrade so you are not sure if the ecu flash really did anything.
Was there a difference between the original Evosport and the MHP v2?
02-11-2009, 02:14 PM
#323
MBWorld Fanatic!
What is the code JR? I thought this code was something to do with the traction system as the car was bottoming out or skipping through turn 8 under heavy load. I dont want to look like I am trying to defend anyone. I just was wondering what this code was and when it was taking place.
Do both cars in question run h&r springs and have the car sitting lower than stock? Shocks are adjusted stiffer or re-valved? Alignment specs are changed?
Do both cars in question run h&r springs and have the car sitting lower than stock? Shocks are adjusted stiffer or re-valved? Alignment specs are changed?
02-11-2009, 03:10 PM
#324
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e550 4m
There seem to be 3 distinct questions/issues going on - perhaps they could be separated into different threads? (probably too much work, at this point)
The question raised (either here or the other thread, can't keep 'em straight) that to me was intriguing is "when MHP tried to update jrcart's tune to v3 prior to your Willow track day, could they have inadvertently flashed you back to the Powerchip tune?"
To offer the money back guarantee, they would have to make a back-up of the file that was on the car's ECU when they got it (one would think). So, presumably, they have a file saved called "Jim, stock" and others like "Jim, v2, non-NOS," "Jim, v2, NOS" etc. Possible that Dave Kasper keyed the wrong file to be flashed, and instead flashed it back to stock? The names could just as easily be "Jim_X024F5" "Jim_Y64CZ2" etc - only Dave or perhaps Andy would know.
As for jrcart's concerns regarding the NOS tune, sounds like a separate "is it safe?" issue - but sounds like it was indeed an MHP proprietary tune... correct? If it didn't have identical "f'd up" coding issues as the early PC tune, then it lends credibility to the point that MHP isn't simply stealing PC tunes and passing them off as their own.
The third issue seems to be "is MHP's mail order ECU/TCU tuning false advertising, as it does not change settings in the TCM, rather it alters tranny/shift settings in the ECU that other tuners choose to leave stock" - some customer feedback seems to suggest "hey, it does what I was told it would do... the name used to differentiate this from other tuners is semantics" - that said, potential customers seem a bit taken aback, and are less likely to pursue an MHP tuning solution. Not sure if I missed anything...
The question raised (either here or the other thread, can't keep 'em straight) that to me was intriguing is "when MHP tried to update jrcart's tune to v3 prior to your Willow track day, could they have inadvertently flashed you back to the Powerchip tune?"
To offer the money back guarantee, they would have to make a back-up of the file that was on the car's ECU when they got it (one would think). So, presumably, they have a file saved called "Jim, stock" and others like "Jim, v2, non-NOS," "Jim, v2, NOS" etc. Possible that Dave Kasper keyed the wrong file to be flashed, and instead flashed it back to stock? The names could just as easily be "Jim_X024F5" "Jim_Y64CZ2" etc - only Dave or perhaps Andy would know.
As for jrcart's concerns regarding the NOS tune, sounds like a separate "is it safe?" issue - but sounds like it was indeed an MHP proprietary tune... correct? If it didn't have identical "f'd up" coding issues as the early PC tune, then it lends credibility to the point that MHP isn't simply stealing PC tunes and passing them off as their own.
The third issue seems to be "is MHP's mail order ECU/TCU tuning false advertising, as it does not change settings in the TCM, rather it alters tranny/shift settings in the ECU that other tuners choose to leave stock" - some customer feedback seems to suggest "hey, it does what I was told it would do... the name used to differentiate this from other tuners is semantics" - that said, potential customers seem a bit taken aback, and are less likely to pursue an MHP tuning solution. Not sure if I missed anything...
thats how i read it, good call on the backup files, never thought of that.
I think we are given enough resonable doubt that any court of law would find Andy innocent - given the facts at hand and if this was a court of law ... i am saying innocent until proven guilty works in the law courts, why not on mbforum courts?
maybe the "others" want to go back to the drawing table and come up with shock and awe round 2.
Last edited by stefario; 02-11-2009 at 03:14 PM.
02-11-2009, 03:22 PM
#325
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2011 GLK350, 2010 ML350, 2008 C63 AMG
So I was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone had their AMGs messed up with whatever "tuning" or "reflash" by the manufacturers? I'm hoping that no one ending up blowing a motor or anything else.
