SUPERCHARGED m156, 63 amg !!!!
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MB
Here's a link to a CARB EO for a Kenne Bell blower in case people who haven't seen one of these want to see what they look like.
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-271-16.pdf
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-271-16.pdf
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From: North Jersey
2012 CTS-V
be much cheaper to install.
Luke, not sure how much I can say yet, but install will be far less than that, FYI.
Thanks
brad
Thanks
brad
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MB
Figure, 20-25 whp gain for each pound of boost. That's a somewhat rough estimate. I've seen dynos where twin screws gained upwards of 30rwhp on V8's but, I like to be conservative with power estimates.
With a 2.3L twin screw on this size engine and with relatively high 11.3:1 compression, 5-7 psi is probably enough to see a nice gain. That would keep things conservative, and probably within the bounds of the Trans limitations.
The next question would be heat, especially for those that live in really hot climates and drive in the Summer.
The gen 5 Camaro has heat issues with all super charger applications. And it looks like the upcoming Z28 has a vented hood, whereas the regular Camaro SS does not. So, seems like a vented hood would be a good addition for this blower kit.
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From: NY
See Sig
Yes, it is. Based on Brad's response we now know that the kit is pretty much plug and play, requires very little if any fab work and is most likely pretty easy to install. Based on that, it gives me at least a better idea of exactly what they will be bringing to market. Sorry you had a tough time understanding my line of questioning...usually I do have a point.
I do agree with you however that for ~$17k or so, it's not worth it. The M156 was never meant to be blown, the transmission will most likely be ok in low boost applications thou...but you can get the same hp increase from bolt-ons that are much more reliable.
I do agree with you however that for ~$17k or so, it's not worth it. The M156 was never meant to be blown, the transmission will most likely be ok in low boost applications thou...but you can get the same hp increase from bolt-ons that are much more reliable.
I want to see the numbers first and see if its worth it. I know there has been much discussed in this thread about blowing the C63 and the good and the bad. How much more power would be left after this application? Say for instance long tubes and cat deletes.
Also, I imagine this application comes with a tune for it. Who is making the tune?
The tranny in the end is the Achilles heel in this car.
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Looking over some more EO's it seems like a blower manufacturer can submit a kit on one type of car and have the kit be approved for other models as well? I'm not entirely sure, but perhaps someone can chime in and let us know.
Here's an example of an EO that appears to exempt numerous models of Chrysler vehicles. So, I think one EO can cover various vehicles.
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-213-29.pdf
Here's an example of an EO that appears to exempt numerous models of Chrysler vehicles. So, I think one EO can cover various vehicles.
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-213-29.pdf
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I really didnt understand your intentions but im glad you elaborated a little more because 5K on the install was absurd. We will get a price soon enough and im sure it will be expensive since its a new item and people will pay a premium for it.
I want to see the numbers first and see if its worth it. I know there has been much discussed in this thread about blowing the C63 and the good and the bad. How much more power would be left after this application? Say for instance long tubes and cat deletes.
Also, I imagine this application comes with a tune for it. Who is making the tune?
The tranny in the end is the Achilles heel in this car.
I want to see the numbers first and see if its worth it. I know there has been much discussed in this thread about blowing the C63 and the good and the bad. How much more power would be left after this application? Say for instance long tubes and cat deletes.
Also, I imagine this application comes with a tune for it. Who is making the tune?
The tranny in the end is the Achilles heel in this car.
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From: Sydney, Australia
Vath ML63 Brabus C63 SL63 CLK63BS C63BS
I am very excited by the prospect of Javing these kits on the market. I hope jcart gets one installed on his Black Series and gives it a good hammering. Surely this is goig to cannabilise a lot of the market for those vendors that just sell headers and tunes. Who would buy the full-scale cars+tune+headers+exhaust from vendors like carlsson, mkb or Vath when you could get more hp feo a supercharger at lower cost than weistec's advertising. None of these European mb specialist aftermarket companies can get cars to the magical 600hp crank figure let alone offering it to owners of RHD vehicles.
This product could be godsend for people like me who have RHD vehicles and who get sodomised by European prices for mods that max out at 580hp
This product could be godsend for people like me who have RHD vehicles and who get sodomised by European prices for mods that max out at 580hp
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From: PNW
'15 VW GTI
Surely this is goig to cannabilise a lot of the market for those vendors that just sell headers and tunes. Who would buy the full-scale cars+tune+headers+exhaust from vendors like carlsson, mkb or Vath when you could get more hp feo a supercharger at lower cost than weistec's advertising. None of these European mb specialist aftermarket companies can get cars to the magical 600hp crank figure let alone offering it to owners of RHD vehicles.
This product could be godsend for people like me who have RHD vehicles and who get sodomised by European prices for mods that max out at 580hp
This product could be godsend for people like me who have RHD vehicles and who get sodomised by European prices for mods that max out at 580hp
For much less than 15K you can get headers, tune, airbox, pulley and be at 600 crank easy..Most people wouldn't buy headers anyhow, doubt they would even consider the kind of $$$ it's going to take for this blower.
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See Sig
Some people have a different idea of "to much money"
Depending on what this thing can do on the track ill decide but for me its probably to much. Im spoiled by cheap US cars upgrades.
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2009 C63 AMG
I wish somebody would come up with a bolt on 4MATIC for the C63!
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'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
The supercharger is a winner, and they'll sell a boat load for the '63 AMGs as their up market financially from BMW crowd. It's an easy install maybe 8 hrs and you pick up a 100 hp and more torque than the tires can handle. The two engineers who designed this were smart enough to know the market segment.
Do you think that guys that bolt these on Camaros worry about transmission! Not until the clutch explodes! The MB transmission is stout enough to handle the 5-6 lbs of boost as Jrcart is running somewhere over 600 rwph. There will be those greedy turds that will want 8 lbs and more with a pulley upgrade and then when they have transmission fluid running out their ***. They will whine about the transmission not being strong enough, whine, whine, whine. This is so predictable it's funny.
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From: Northport N.Y.
2013 f250 6.7 diesel
I think the issue is we get so spoiled watching other cars bolt on superchargers pump boost to 12 psi put 200 whp down.. And pay half the price. I believe you are right though once there is 1 or 2 of these chargers running around and proving power and longevity they will sell a boat load.
I'm not familiar but you can't run cated headers exhust in California?
I'm not familiar but you can't run cated headers exhust in California?
The long tube headers, tune and airbox doesn't pass emission, at least in CA and if you've ever had a non conforming car, the hassle with the DMV takes the fun out of the mods. Based on the Evosport catalog prices a complete exhaust and long tubes and tune are $12,500 without labor so you have a choice smog legal 600 hp or illegal 600 hp. The cost is about the same.
The supercharger is a winner, and they'll sell a boat load for the '63 AMGs as their up market financially from BMW crowd. It's an easy install maybe 8 hrs and you pick up a 100 hp and more torque than the tires can handle. The two engineers who designed this were smart enough to know the market segment.
Do you think that guys that bolt these on Camaros worry about transmission! Not until the clutch explodes! The MB transmission is stout enough to handle the 5-6 lbs of boost as Jrcart is running somewhere over 600 rwph. There will be those greedy turds that will want 8 lbs and more with a pulley upgrade and then when they have transmission fluid running out their ***. They will whine about the transmission not being strong enough, whine, whine, whine. This is so predictable it's funny.
The supercharger is a winner, and they'll sell a boat load for the '63 AMGs as their up market financially from BMW crowd. It's an easy install maybe 8 hrs and you pick up a 100 hp and more torque than the tires can handle. The two engineers who designed this were smart enough to know the market segment.
Do you think that guys that bolt these on Camaros worry about transmission! Not until the clutch explodes! The MB transmission is stout enough to handle the 5-6 lbs of boost as Jrcart is running somewhere over 600 rwph. There will be those greedy turds that will want 8 lbs and more with a pulley upgrade and then when they have transmission fluid running out their ***. They will whine about the transmission not being strong enough, whine, whine, whine. This is so predictable it's funny.
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.
Jim will probably want the 8 psi. But he wouldn't whine when his trans goes out.
It doesn't pass the OBDII test or the visual test? Please clarify.
It doesn't pass the OBDII test or the visual test? Please clarify.
Last edited by Sincity; Jan 15, 2011 at 12:08 AM.
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LTs with cats will pass emissions and LTs/Tune/Airbox (renntech) is more like 8k with labor. Far different from 12k without and smog illegal. Contrary, those 3 mods above are not only half the cost, but they are probably safer on the car/transmission and for the most part are easily reversible for major warranty issues. I don't think any dealer will accept a supercharged C63 versus a tune that can be flashed in 10mins, airboxes which are benign, and that just leaves the LTs, which is a 6hour job if the **** hits the fan.
The long tube headers, tune and airbox doesn't pass emission, at least in CA and if you've ever had a non conforming car, the hassle with the DMV takes the fun out of the mods. Based on the Evosport catalog prices a complete exhaust and long tubes and tune are $12,500 without labor so you have a choice smog legal 600 hp or illegal 600 hp. The cost is about the same.
The supercharger is a winner, and they'll sell a boat load for the '63 AMGs as their up market financially from BMW crowd. It's an easy install maybe 8 hrs and you pick up a 100 hp and more torque than the tires can handle. The two engineers who designed this were smart enough to know the market segment.
Do you think that guys that bolt these on Camaros worry about transmission! Not until the clutch explodes! The MB transmission is stout enough to handle the 5-6 lbs of boost as Jrcart is running somewhere over 600 rwph. There will be those greedy turds that will want 8 lbs and more with a pulley upgrade and then when they have transmission fluid running out their ***. They will whine about the transmission not being strong enough, whine, whine, whine. This is so predictable it's funny.
The supercharger is a winner, and they'll sell a boat load for the '63 AMGs as their up market financially from BMW crowd. It's an easy install maybe 8 hrs and you pick up a 100 hp and more torque than the tires can handle. The two engineers who designed this were smart enough to know the market segment.
Do you think that guys that bolt these on Camaros worry about transmission! Not until the clutch explodes! The MB transmission is stout enough to handle the 5-6 lbs of boost as Jrcart is running somewhere over 600 rwph. There will be those greedy turds that will want 8 lbs and more with a pulley upgrade and then when they have transmission fluid running out their ***. They will whine about the transmission not being strong enough, whine, whine, whine. This is so predictable it's funny.
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From: Melbourne, Australia
2011 Ultima GTR
I want to see comparison dynos of different stages of modding with the S/C.
Stock + Charger + Tune
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's + Full exhaust
then also maybe one + Pulley (crank) and + Airboxes
I have a feeling anything beyond option 1 might start killing the trans.
Stock + Charger + Tune
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's + Full exhaust
then also maybe one + Pulley (crank) and + Airboxes
I have a feeling anything beyond option 1 might start killing the trans.
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From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
Ya, you can put in cat's but you will lose a bunch of the gain and maybe pass but if you get a "fail" then things tighten up and you won't get passed the visual inspection. Each emission shop is hooked up to Sacramento and when you get a fail big brother knows. Some cars due to the high percentage of mods become "gross polluters" like 993tt and a lot of the hot rods.
The days of paying $20-50 to your smog shop for a pass are over in CA.
The Weistec guys are doing it right. I'm sure prices will come down after a while and it seems to be a nice upgrade in case a porsche, zo6 challenges your manhood.
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
I want to see comparison dynos of different stages of modding with the S/C.
Stock + Charger + Tune
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's + Full exhaust
then also maybe one + Pulley (crank) and + Airboxes
I have a feeling anything beyond option 1 might start killing the trans.
Stock + Charger + Tune
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's
Stock + Charger + Tune + LTH's + Full exhaust
then also maybe one + Pulley (crank) and + Airboxes
I have a feeling anything beyond option 1 might start killing the trans.
A smaller crank pulley to save weight and reduce the TQ required to turn the accessories will actually slow the supercharger down and reduce HP. I don't think you would generally want to do this.
If the smallest pulley has been installed on the supercharger then it is sometimes an option to install a larger crank pulley to speed up the supercharger as long as it is still in it's efficiency zone and is not just generating more heat as this option will likely increase parasitic drag from the supercharger and other accessories.
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From: Northport N.Y.
2013 f250 6.7 diesel
That stinks? Well hopefully this supercharger delivers as advertised! It would be a breath of fresh air.
dodger,
Ya, you can put in cat's but you will lose a bunch of the gain and maybe pass but if you get a "fail" then things tighten up and you won't get passed the visual inspection. Each emission shop is hooked up to Sacramento and when you get a fail big brother knows. Some cars due to the high percentage of mods become "gross polluters" like 993tt and a lot of the hot rods.
The days of paying $20-50 to your smog shop for a pass are over in CA.
The Weistec guys are doing it right. I'm sure prices will come down after a while and it seems to be a nice upgrade in case a porsche, zo6 challenges your manhood.
Ya, you can put in cat's but you will lose a bunch of the gain and maybe pass but if you get a "fail" then things tighten up and you won't get passed the visual inspection. Each emission shop is hooked up to Sacramento and when you get a fail big brother knows. Some cars due to the high percentage of mods become "gross polluters" like 993tt and a lot of the hot rods.
The days of paying $20-50 to your smog shop for a pass are over in CA.
The Weistec guys are doing it right. I'm sure prices will come down after a while and it seems to be a nice upgrade in case a porsche, zo6 challenges your manhood.
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From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
Cars are the devil in CA with all the political correctness and arrogant a holes in Prius's ridding free the car pool lane. Once the car capital of the world has fallen. Wonder why we're broke and business leaving in droves. Sorry for the rant.
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BMW
The long tube headers, tune and airbox doesn't pass emission, at least in CA and if you've ever had a non conforming car, the hassle with the DMV takes the fun out of the mods. Based on the Evosport catalog prices a complete exhaust and long tubes and tune are $12,500 without labor so you have a choice smog legal 600 hp or illegal 600 hp. The cost is about the same.
I think we have to keep in mind that anything emissions legal is not going to be as geared towards performance. If I end up with this supercharger I'll take the non emissions legal tune please LOL.
The supercharger is a winner, and they'll sell a boat load for the '63 AMGs as their up market financially from BMW crowd. It's an easy install maybe 8 hrs and you pick up a 100 hp and more torque than the tires can handle. The two engineers who designed this were smart enough to know the market segment.
Based on what others have said I sure hope they looked far enough ahead into the transmission and stall converter.
Do you think that guys that bolt these on Camaros worry about transmission! Not until the clutch explodes! The MB transmission is stout enough to handle the 5-6 lbs of boost as Jrcart is running somewhere over 600 rwph. There will be those greedy turds that will want 8 lbs and more with a pulley upgrade and then when they have transmission fluid running out their ***. They will whine about the transmission not being strong enough, whine, whine, whine. This is so predictable it's funny.
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From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
No the camaro guys have much stronger transmissions than we do, always have. Chevy builds great drivelines, maybe not cars, but drivelines.
It may sound like I'm biased, but my track observations don't confirm that GM builds great drive trains. Z06's are well documented to have clutch issues even in stock form with long term road race use (actually many engine failures). Find "one" drive line failure in a BS with track use. There are none.
Five to six 30 minute track session a day tend to be a better barometer than a bunch of 1/4 mile runs. But I'm biased.
Last edited by otoupalik; Jan 24, 2011 at 11:45 AM.
