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Hi All-
I'm studying how to perform alignment DIY.
But I first wanted to verify the following information and ask several question:
1. Camber is the angle of the tire, and if camber was off there would be excessive wear on the inner or outer tie rod.
2. To adjust camber, the locking/adjustment nuts would need to be loosened. Clockwise would loosen the nut on our car, as that is turning the bolt away from the outer tie rod. I believe adjusting the tie rod counterclockwise to address wear on outer portion of tire??
3. The toe is the actual direction of the tire (whether pointed in or out). I am not sure how to adjust; is it adjusting the ball joint up or down on the outer tie rod?
4. Are there bolts to loosen to make steering wheel straight??
Please let me know your thoughts!? Have a great day.
Assuming you are talking about your CLS500 which is almost identical to the E500...
1. On the W211, camber is adjusted by raising/lowering the car and/or installing camber bolts (not sure this will work on the W211 front sub-frame based on one post). Generally, excessive toe is what destroys the inside or outside of the tire tread. If you have Airmatic on your CLS, you can calibrate the suspension to bring camber back into line. https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ml#post6873199
2. You're describing toe adjustment.
3. Use the tie-rod ends.
4. Use the tie-rod ends.
Assuming you are talking about your CLS500 which is almost identical to the E500...
1. On the W211, camber is adjusted by raising/lowering the car and/or installing camber bolts (not sure this will work on the W211 front sub-frame based on one post). Generally, excessive toe is what destroys the inside or outside of the tire tread. If you have Airmatic on your CLS, you can calibrate the suspension to bring camber back into line. https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ml#post6873199
2. You're describing toe adjustment.
3. Use the tie-rod ends.
4. Use the tie-rod ends.
WOW, thank you so much for the outstanding response!
Yes, I am referring to my CLS500.
I post to this group given so many more people own the w211 and are so helpful.
I have a 5 year alignment plan at Merchants and they said the front passenger tie rod was seized and could not do an alignment.
I'm assuming that they could not loosen the adjusting nut on the outer tie rod, and they were not messing with camber.
My plan is to loosen the nut on my own in my garage(clockwise to loosen), put some anti-seize, and then bring it back to them.
I may end up replacing the tie rods altogether if they look worn or corroded.
Let me know if you have any thoughts and thanks again for responding.
Have a great weekend.
You may want to just change the tie-rod assemblies. I had the same jammed tie rod problem on my car. Worst case is you replace the entire tie-rod assembly on the jammed side.
Mercedes sells camber and caster bolts. There is a groove in them that allows a fixed amount of adjustment in or out depending on how the bolt is flipped. The factory bolt with no grooves is center.
Caster will push wheel forward or backward and will affect if car pulls to right or left.
Camber has the exact adjustments in or out and it will affect inner or outer tread wear.
The combination of both are important. I used the bolts to pull everything inward and get the least amount of treadwear on inner. Then the car was very slightly pulling to the right.
Then I swapped the right caster bolt around to push it forward. Pull went to the left so I put oem bolt in right and it was perfect.
Everytime that I did these changes, the only factory adjustments of tie rods had to be done.
Mercedes sells camber and caster bolts. There is a groove in them that allows a fixed amount of adjustment in or out depending on how the bolt is flipped. The factory bolt with no grooves is center.
Caster will push wheel forward or backward and will affect if car pulls to right or left.
Camber has the exact adjustments in or out and it will affect inner or outer tread wear.
The combination of both are important. I used the bolts to pull everything inward and get the least amount of treadwear on inner. Then the car was very slightly pulling to the right.
Then I swapped the right caster bolt around to push it forward. Pull went to the left so I put oem bolt in right and it was perfect.
Everytime that I did these changes, the only factory adjustments of tie rods had to be done.
Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF): I will never recommend using adjustable camber/caster bolts to band-aid an out-of-calibration airmatic suspension *unless the owner deliberately mis-calibrated the front airmatic to lower the car and now needs to pull the camber into something approaching factory recommended settings*.
I hear what you are saying and concur with your description as well as the need to adjust the tie rods afterward. And please note the primary point of my discussion was *how to set the toe*.
I will still insist the control arm and rear axle angles need to be within max/min boundaries and equal side-to-side. At that time, camber side-to-side should be approximately equal (+/- a couple of tenths of degrees). If the camber in the front is markedly off on one side versus the other side (say +/- 0.5 degrees compared to the other side), then the eccentric bolts are an option. I would argue that if the camber is off that badly side-to-side at that point, I would be looking for collapsed bushings or bad ball joints first.
If one only focuses on camber settings, one could literally use camber bolts to equalize the camber side-to-side while having one side of the front over an inch lower than the other side due to mis-calibrated suspension (e.g. on my car, a change in control arm angle from 2.4 to 3.1 degrees raised that corner of the car 7/8"). Ensure the suspension is calibrated, then camber/caster bolts as required and only if necessary, then focus on the toe because that is what usually chews up the tires. If any bushings or ball joints are bad, all bets are off due to dynamic loads.
As stated in the BLUF, if one were to lower their car, using the adjustable camber bolts in the front to offset the increase in negative camber would be a good thing. For the rear, that's a whole different discussion for another thread.
FWIW, I finally found the picture that describes the proper way to use the adjustable camber bolts in the W211. Very different compared to the W210/208. On the W211 it appears to be a +/- 0.7 degree camber change compared to a +/- 0.3 degree change on the W210. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post7514643
1. The car comes from the factory with “relatively” severe camber settings that wear out the inner edges of the front tires.
2. Correct that the rear is a different story because camber bolts with the slots cannot be used.
3. My car has factory settings but still chewed through the inside of the front tires. I bought the oem camber and caster bolts (4) and reduced the wear as much as possible. The bolts have a fixed adjustment.
4. If you lower your car through Star airmatic, links or springs then the problem is worse.
5. There are various expensive and controversial bushings or arms that provide near unlimited adjustments. Pretty cool but expensive.
None of these can be made with Star. You should pull off a wheel and get a good look at what is going on.
Star can lower the airmatic shock but just picture what that will do. The tire is already tilted in (camber) with factory setting. This is why people complain about most German cars and the inside wear on tires. Great for performance. Necessary on a CLS550?
Lowering with various methods will increase this even more. With the wheel off see the two control arms shaped in a V? One is camber and one caster. The OEM adjustment bolts have grooves in them that have a fixed adjustment to either push the control arm in or pull out. The original bolts have no grooves and are set in the middle. i put these bolts in with factory settings just to reduce inside tire wear.
There are other expensive options that replace the circular bushing in the control arm and allow variable adjustment. Not without controversy though so read up on it if going to try.
The rear is different as the bolts with grooves are not applicable in the control arm design in the rear.
None of these can be made with Star. You should pull off a wheel and get a good look at what is going on.
Star can lower the airmatic shock but just picture what that will do. The tire is already tilted in (camber) with factory setting. This is why people complain about most German cars and the inside wear on tires. Great for performance. Necessary on a CLS550?
Lowering with various methods will increase this even more. With the wheel off see the two control arms shaped in a V? One is camber and one caster. The OEM adjustment bolts have grooves in them that have a fixed adjustment to either push the control arm in or pull out. The original bolts have no grooves and are set in the middle. i put these bolts in with factory settings just to reduce inside tire wear.
There are other expensive options that replace the circular bushing in the control arm and allow variable adjustment. Not without controversy though so read up on it if going to try.
The rear is different as the bolts with grooves are not applicable in the control arm design in the rear.
One more question while I have your attention: Does straightening the steering wheel during an alignment simply involve doing the standard toe alignment with the adjusting screw on the tie rod and keeping the steering wheel straight (I suppose I could also hook up my MB icarsoft and look at the steering angle to get it zeroed )?
Or is there more to getting the steering wheel straight? I ask simply because when I take my car to Merchants they almost never get the wheel straight. Are they just being lazy or is there something more complicated involved? Thanks again and have a great day.
Do not pay if they do not give your car back with wheel straight. Let them know if it is off to start with because yes it is adjustable with toe.
Finding a good alignment shop is hard to do so google local places. I found one and won’t go anywhere else. Make sure you get a hard copy printout of settings after they are done. Places rarely do this because it separates the professionals from the rest. Might cost you $20-$30 more but so worth it.
I just re-read your comment above...
I have a 5 year alignment plan at Merchants and they said the front passenger tie rod was seized and could not do an alignment.
That would worry me about their ability. You might want to stop by a local store and hold a replacement one in your hand to work how the end spins with the rod and nut locks. Put some heat on the corroded spot and it will come loose. If not cut it in half, measure the length, set the replacement one the same length and install. Take it to them for final adjustment.
Do in pairs. Do not only do one side. Go to a new place even if you have a 5 year plan.
Do not pay if they do not give your car back with wheel straight. Let them know if it is off to start with because yes it is adjustable with toe.
Finding a good alignment shop is hard to do so google local places. I found one and won’t go anywhere else. Make sure you get a hard copy printout of settings after they are done. Places rarely do this because it separates the professionals from the rest. Might cost you $20-$30 more but so worth it.
Viper is absolutely right on this. Good alignment shop is really hard to find. Unfortunately, all new cars I had for the past 20 years needed alignment except for the 2017 MB. One reason is that most shops' alignment machine are not calibrated often enough, so they are not accurate. If you have an calibrated, accurate machine, it's not hard to do a good alignment. I also learned that it is important to "center" the number when adjusting toe. If the range calls for -0.04 to +0.04, then the center point is 0. If adjustment is at +0.04, then you will see abnormal wear even though it is within spec. My 0.02.
I just re-read your comment above...
I have a 5 year alignment plan at Merchants and they said the front passenger tie rod was seized and could not do an alignment.
That would worry me about their ability. You might want to stop by a local store and hold a replacement one in your hand to work how the end spins with the rod and nut locks. Put some heat on the corroded spot and it will come loose. If not cut it in half, measure the length, set the replacement one the same length and install. Take it to them for final adjustment.
Do in pairs. Do not only do one side. Go to a new place even if you have a 5 year plan.
Thanks- when you say "cut in half", what do you mean?
If completely seized, I was considering just replacing entire inner and outer tie rod.
Why couldn't I just apply lubricant over night and then use a breaking bar (being careful not to knock out of alignment with another wrench holding adjustment rod)?
I have never had to resort to using heat on anything, no matter how tough the job was.
These guys at Merchants are morons.
See the pink arrows for the adjusting nut. I have not had a chance to get under my car yet, but I am assuming this is the bolt that the morons cannot unscrew. The pic is from a w204 but it should be similar or the same. It is the screw that needs to be loosed before you adjust outer tie rod for toe alignment.
Run away from that place.
Hit it with some liquid wrench and get two big wrenches on it. Make sure you turn the correct way. Depending on miles you should replace them anyways so best to buy new ones first and checkout the movement or carefully look at thread angle.
You have ave never used heat? Are you nuts? Heat is a mechanic’s best friend. I would torch that for a few seconds and it would come off like butter
I really love me some breaker bars, but thanks for the tip on heat.
Always thought heat was used as a last resort.
Also, if something is that hard to loosen I usually find I am using the wrong tool.
I'm assuming that loosening this nut is *clockwise* (i.e., since that would move the nut away from the outer tie rod and up toward the threads on the inner tie rod)?
I have had tie rods with left threads so you’ll need to look at the thread angle or hold a new one.
How long do you apply heat? Are you saying to *not*make it glow?
Thanks for the tip about right versus left handed threading.
I guess I will just look at threads visually.
Of the parts I have seen online, it appears the tie rods are right handed. But I have also read that they can come either right or left handed.
For reference are the pics I looked at.
I am a professor of mechanical engineering and we study wheel alignment.
Using the slotted bolts lets you change the E320 Mercedes camber and Caster but all cars adjust toe in with the tie rod. Worn ball joints cause untold issues with repeatable numbers and if worn, it is a mistake to try to align a car. The numbers change continuously.
Tire wear is EXTREMELY sensitive to toe in and manufacturers will let large variations in camber and caster out at a production plant but never toe. It is always minimized.
07-27-2018, 08:43 AM
