That *Oil Change* Contraption
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Nissan GT-R BE / '12 Ducati-1199 Panigale S / '12 C300-4M Loaded/GLK350-4M Loaded
That *Oil Change* Contraption
I've read here on MBWorld that some DIY's are refusing to get on their backs to change the oil in their GLK's opting instead to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube using a machine like this:
Well the only thing I can say is, why? Sure small metal particles will be filtered out, but the larger ones that fall into the pan and rest there will never be removed if you use this device. These larger pieces will remain there unless they can flow out along with the dirty oil during a proper oil change procedure. This requires the oil drain plug or bolt to be removed from the oil pan so that all the old oil and metal pieces can now flow out from the engine.
I repeat, this device will not remove all the contaminated oil, plus it will leave these larger metal pieces in the engine where they could eventually clog the oil pick up screen or worse.
My advice if you wish to take it, don't buy one if you're contemplating to do so just crawl on your back and open the drain plug. If you already have one, use it only as a last resort, if ever, or simply go to the dealer for your oil changes.
Well the only thing I can say is, why? Sure small metal particles will be filtered out, but the larger ones that fall into the pan and rest there will never be removed if you use this device. These larger pieces will remain there unless they can flow out along with the dirty oil during a proper oil change procedure. This requires the oil drain plug or bolt to be removed from the oil pan so that all the old oil and metal pieces can now flow out from the engine.
I repeat, this device will not remove all the contaminated oil, plus it will leave these larger metal pieces in the engine where they could eventually clog the oil pick up screen or worse.
My advice if you wish to take it, don't buy one if you're contemplating to do so just crawl on your back and open the drain plug. If you already have one, use it only as a last resort, if ever, or simply go to the dealer for your oil changes.
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The dealer uses
a suction evacuation machine.That happens to be the factory approved procedure you appear to be clueless about.
They get out just as much or more of the oil since they go into the pan at the lowest point.
Safer,faster,thorough.
lastly if you have big pieces of metal you have way bigger issues to worry about.
Been changing oil on several of our Benz with this factory method for years never had any of the problems your uninformed opinions project.
They get out just as much or more of the oil since they go into the pan at the lowest point.
Safer,faster,thorough.
lastly if you have big pieces of metal you have way bigger issues to worry about.
Been changing oil on several of our Benz with this factory method for years never had any of the problems your uninformed opinions project.
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+1 on what ohlord posted. This is the preferred method of MB and other high end manufacturers. It isn't that they are lazy to get under the car, it's just that you no longer have to. Motors nowadays are extremely precise and there are no metal shavings that would be produced by running the engine. This isn't your 1970s Chevy big block anymore... Totally different motor made using high tech alloys.
On another note, I never change my own oil. I take both my Benzes to the dealer. It is a once per year job, so I just don't see why I would get involved with it just to save $20 (if that!). My oil change at the dealer includes a car wash and a loaner for the day (C300 no less) along with pickup and delivery of my car. All this for about $140. The oil and filter alone costs $50 (more for my V8 R500)
On another note, I never change my own oil. I take both my Benzes to the dealer. It is a once per year job, so I just don't see why I would get involved with it just to save $20 (if that!). My oil change at the dealer includes a car wash and a loaner for the day (C300 no less) along with pickup and delivery of my car. All this for about $140. The oil and filter alone costs $50 (more for my V8 R500)
Last edited by aggst1; Dec 15, 2010 at 06:11 PM.
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Not so much on OhLords theory.
What is it that oil filters filter out
Is it sludge? or maybe it's sediment, nah it's containments. Hummmm did I spell it right well who cares it catches something. RIGHT!!! Pump or not to pump that is the question.
We've talked about this before. Most of us believe that the car manufacturers are in this for the love not the money, right again! So why wouldn't someone invent a machine to suck the oil out of an engine. That straw ALWAYS makes it to the bottom of the pan, right one more time. No matter who invented these pumps why wouldn't manufacturers recommend it to the dealers? It's faster and cheaper, puts more money on the bottom line. Oh I'm sorry they are in this for the love aren't they?
When my mechanic changes my oil he does it the old fashion way. He puts the car up on a lift. He checks and rotates my tires, checks the undercarriage, for leaks and loose parts and inspects my brake linings and rotors. I know, I know you can do all of that also when you use a pump, WHILE THE CAR IS ON THE G R O U N D!!!!!!
Enough said you can do it your way but I think for those of us who really care about our vehicles we prefer the old fashion method. And maybe there aren't any metal shaving in the oil but I'd like to think that the filter does something. As I've said before just my .02. Please forgive my sarcasm.
Thanks once again MBRedux!!!
What is it that oil filters filter out
Is it sludge? or maybe it's sediment, nah it's containments. Hummmm did I spell it right well who cares it catches something. RIGHT!!! Pump or not to pump that is the question. We've talked about this before. Most of us believe that the car manufacturers are in this for the love not the money, right again! So why wouldn't someone invent a machine to suck the oil out of an engine. That straw ALWAYS makes it to the bottom of the pan, right one more time. No matter who invented these pumps why wouldn't manufacturers recommend it to the dealers? It's faster and cheaper, puts more money on the bottom line. Oh I'm sorry they are in this for the love aren't they?
When my mechanic changes my oil he does it the old fashion way. He puts the car up on a lift. He checks and rotates my tires, checks the undercarriage, for leaks and loose parts and inspects my brake linings and rotors. I know, I know you can do all of that also when you use a pump, WHILE THE CAR IS ON THE G R O U N D!!!!!!
Enough said you can do it your way but I think for those of us who really care about our vehicles we prefer the old fashion method. And maybe there aren't any metal shaving in the oil but I'd like to think that the filter does something. As I've said before just my .02. Please forgive my sarcasm.
Thanks once again MBRedux!!!
Last edited by MKenM; Dec 15, 2010 at 10:07 PM.
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a suction evacuation machine.That happens to be the factory approved procedure you appear to be clueless about.
They get out just as much or more of the oil since they go into the pan at the lowest point.
Safer,faster,thorough.
lastly if you have big pieces of metal you have way bigger issues to worry about.
Been changing oil on several of our Benz with this factory method for years never had any of the problems your uninformed opinions project.
They get out just as much or more of the oil since they go into the pan at the lowest point.
Safer,faster,thorough.
lastly if you have big pieces of metal you have way bigger issues to worry about.
Been changing oil on several of our Benz with this factory method for years never had any of the problems your uninformed opinions project.
"Factory approved procedure", now that's a funny one for sure...
Me and a couple of my master mechanics just fell off our chairs.... Hey man, I'm sorry... it's okay, it's your engine and you can do whatever makes you feel good. But if you ever need to remove the oil pan, please post a picture of what's in the bottom, thanks.
Last edited by MBRedux; Dec 16, 2010 at 12:12 AM.
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Interesting comments from people that are reluctant to change. When one does ANYTHING to their car either as a DIYer or has their own shop they should ALWAYS do things the right way. In this case the right way is what MB has instructed all their dealers to do worldwide. Comments like "I ve been changing my own oil the other way all my life" ONLY prove the ignorance of the person making them.
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Just ask yourselves why would MB, BMW and others would use the suction method for oil changes if it was harmful? Certainly they have much more brain power on staff than "master" mechanics at a neighborhood repair shop
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First, dealerships have only one goal in mind, and that is to turn a profit no matter what. Second, quick oil and fluid change procedures are not "recommended" by the "factory", in fact if you were to read the service procedure as outlined in their official service manual, it does not specify which procedure to perform, it simply says to "drain" the oil, fluid etc. Factory service techs are trained to do whatever they need to do to keep their jobs and not jeopardize new car warranties. Therefore they routinely run these and any type of new procedure past their Tech-Line supervisors first before they start the work. Granted, oil changes are not rocket science and should not be reviewed by Tech-Line. But quick changes have been around since 1960 or so and were adopted by the service departments of all "repair shops" as standard operation whether they be at your local Shell Station or in the dealership pit. It makes no difference because time is money. The more vehicles they can turn around in a day, the more money they stand to make. To lift every car for a $30 oil change is too time consuming and ridiculous.
But if you believe for one second that they only have you and your car's long term (post warranty) well being at heart and not their bottom line, then you're not only naive, you're stupid as well. The entire operation is to make a steady flow of cash, with a little friendly smile thrown in every now and then for good measure. You could leave the factory oil in your car for the entire warranty period and chances are good that nothing will happen to justify a major repair under the warranty. So using a suction pump during the warranty period will not have any detrimental effect on your engine, and that's all they care about because after that, you're on your own!
Last edited by MBRedux; Dec 16, 2010 at 11:02 AM.
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I'll admit that I have no clue which method is better, I just take car to dealer and let him to the dirty job, I don't have a garage or tools. Drainning does make more sense to me conceptually, I also read that some leave the drain hole open and put oil in to flush whatever is left, we are talking stuff you can't see (1-3 microns big). I don't think we are talking metal shaving but something else. Also becuase new engines are more preciese there is more need to remove even smaller particles that might not be filtered out. I'm planning to keep my GLK for a while so we'll see, I just have to see what my dealer does.
On the point of saving time and money, when I used to go to get oil chages at toyota dealer, they had 15-25 cars lined up, 1-2 hour wait to get just oil changed, yet they would lift each one to change the oil. Are they onto something?
On the point of saving time and money, when I used to go to get oil chages at toyota dealer, they had 15-25 cars lined up, 1-2 hour wait to get just oil changed, yet they would lift each one to change the oil. Are they onto something?
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Not really, because there are some engines you cannot perform this suction procedure. Either the dip stick tube is too narrow, too bent, or there's an obstruction in the way, usually a baffle in the pan. Most dip-sticks are up front, so they will allow access only to the front or side of the pan. The GLK is in the rear, so access by way of a suction tube is better than on most engines.
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I never said that the dealers have my cars well being at heart instead of there profits. I am saying however that MB would NEVER allow dealers follow a wrong method of changing the oil simply because they would not jeopardize 110 years of automobile history and fame to make their dealers a quick buck. Your shop may be a step up from a neighborhood garage but your business mentality is of "the quick buck" type.
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I never said that the dealers have my cars well being at heart instead of there profits. (SO WHY DEFEND THEIR METHODS? WHY EVEN GO?) I am saying however that MB would NEVER allow dealers follow a wrong method of changing the oil (SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE ONLY METHOD MERCEDES WOULD ALLOW IS THE SUCTION METHOD AND NOT THE DRAIN METHOD? IF THAT WERE TRUE, WHY THEN WOULD THE FACTORY DESIGN, BUILD AND INSTALL A DRAIN PLUG/BOLT IN THE OIL PAN IN THE FIRST PLACE? YOU MAKE NO SENSE!) simply because they would not jeopardize 110 years of automobile history and fame to make their dealers a quick buck. (WOW, I WON'T EVEN GO THERE. SEE COMMENT BELOW.) Your shop may be a step up from a neighborhood garage but your business mentality is of "the quick buck" type. (ARE YOU BLIND OR IN DENIAL? READ THE POST AGAIN. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, WE DO NOT PERFORM REPAIRS SO WE ARE NOT "of the quick buck type", AND THEREFORE HAVE NO INCENTIVE TO PERFORM SERVICES THAT ARE INCORRECT. WE ARE DETAILED ORIENTED TO THE MICRON. EVERYTHING WE DO MUST BE *PERFECT* OR IT COULD MEAN THE LIFE OF OUR DRIVER. GET IT NOW?)
Last edited by MBRedux; Dec 16, 2010 at 12:03 PM.
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Wow, you need to calm down and discuss this in a civil manner. Just cool it ... If you are that ignorant thinking that you know best then by all means do what you want and leave us alone. YOU asked for opinions and I offered mine which happens to be inline with the manufacturer's. I honestly did not read your entire post because provided nothing of substance. Your last question about how old I am proves your childish behavior. Do what you want, change your oil anyway you like, and change it every 3K miles just as you ve been taught. You know best, you're the man...
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Also, Mercedes put a drain plug for when you need a flush. I never said you never have to drain the oil from below. Again, you can go drink the oil for all I care.
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The discussion on the Noobie's thread "That *Oil Change* Contraption" hasn't so far really shed new information/advices/ideas etc., other than on the thread https://mbworld.org/forums/glk-class...il-change.html, which undertook an enthusiastic discussion about two months ago.
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I've read here on MBWorld that some DIY's are refusing to get on their backs to change the oil in their GLK's opting instead to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube using a machine like this:
Well the only thing I can say is, why? Sure small metal particles will be filtered out, but the larger ones that fall into the pan and rest there will never be removed if you use this device. These larger pieces will remain there unless they can flow out along with the dirty oil during a proper oil change procedure. This requires the oil drain plug or bolt to be removed from the oil pan so that all the old oil and metal pieces can now flow out from the engine.
I repeat, this device will not remove all the contaminated oil, plus it will leave these larger metal pieces in the engine where they could eventually clog the oil pick up screen or worse.
My advice if you wish to take it, don't buy one if you're contemplating to do so just crawl on your back and open the drain plug. If you already have one, use it only as a last resort, if ever, or simply go to the dealer for your oil changes.
Well the only thing I can say is, why? Sure small metal particles will be filtered out, but the larger ones that fall into the pan and rest there will never be removed if you use this device. These larger pieces will remain there unless they can flow out along with the dirty oil during a proper oil change procedure. This requires the oil drain plug or bolt to be removed from the oil pan so that all the old oil and metal pieces can now flow out from the engine.
I repeat, this device will not remove all the contaminated oil, plus it will leave these larger metal pieces in the engine where they could eventually clog the oil pick up screen or worse.
My advice if you wish to take it, don't buy one if you're contemplating to do so just crawl on your back and open the drain plug. If you already have one, use it only as a last resort, if ever, or simply go to the dealer for your oil changes.
I agree completely that sucking the oil out sucks, but I was under the impression from other posts here that some MB dealers use these things.
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This comment sadly proves my point about true ignorance. And by the way, we are not a “neighborhood repair shop”. We do not "repair" anything. We are custom engine builders for Nissan/NISMO and some of the regions top performers. We have operations worldwide and have been featured on the Speed Channel, HDTHR etc.
Well, dayum, no wonder you have a GT-R; it's practically a tool of the trade!
Is that yours on the lift?
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a suction evacuation machine.That happens to be the factory approved procedure you appear to be clueless about.
They get out just as much or more of the oil since they go into the pan at the lowest point.
Safer,faster,thorough.
lastly if you have big pieces of metal you have way bigger issues to worry about.
Been changing oil on several of our Benz with this factory method for years never had any of the problems your uninformed opinions project.
They get out just as much or more of the oil since they go into the pan at the lowest point.
Safer,faster,thorough.
lastly if you have big pieces of metal you have way bigger issues to worry about.
Been changing oil on several of our Benz with this factory method for years never had any of the problems your uninformed opinions project.
I don't know if this is true or not but the shop that work on my car which is specialized in all european cars, the technician told me they use the same extractor the dealer use and it goes "over" the dipstick tube and not in it. My extractor goes down to the bottom of the oil pan so more fluid is removed.
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OhLord is right..The last time I paid MB to change the oil in my E63 I deceided to mark the drain plugs with whiteout than check it when I got home and drain plugs was never removed. I called my SA and ask him how did they change my oil without removing the drain plugs and he told me the same way every MB dealership does it, through the dipstick tube. If the car have a dipstick they will drain it from there. So from than on I bought myself the extractor and does my own oil change.
I don't know if this is true or not but the shop that work on my car which is specialized in all european cars, the technician told me they use the same extractor the dealer use and it goes "over" the dipstick tube and not in it. My extractor goes down to the bottom of the oil pan so more fluid is removed.
I don't know if this is true or not but the shop that work on my car which is specialized in all european cars, the technician told me they use the same extractor the dealer use and it goes "over" the dipstick tube and not in it. My extractor goes down to the bottom of the oil pan so more fluid is removed.
Either way leaves room for missed oil.
The dipstick tube does not necessarily go to the lowest part of the oil pan so there is no guarantee that the tools that go into it will get all the oil.
Also, the dipstick tube does not join the bottom of the oil pan, there is some sort of gap so the tool that goes over it never hits the bottom, even if that point is the lowest part.
The drain plug is at the lowest point so there is no doubt that all the old oil is draining out every time.
Also, don't most cars have magnetic drain plugs to trap metal particles? I would much rather be able to clean that off rather than just let it accumulate over the years.
The dealer doesn't own my car so "good enough" might be acceptible for them but it doesn't fly with me.
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To answer NYCGLK’s question first. The mechanic I was referring to in my earlier post is a guy I have been going to for 20 years. He is not with MB. When I do bring my car to the dealership it is usually for warranty work. The dealership has a 150,000 sq. ft. building that is dedicated to service and parts only. The showroom is a few miles away. They can work on 100 vehicles and have 50 lifts. When I go there if I choose to stay I can watch my vehicle from one of many vantage points, my favorite is the billiards room with the large windows overlooking the shop.
Did I say that it’s not about the money?
Now back to the subject bicker as you might you may all have a point but here is an interesting question. Suppose you used the pump to drain your oil and when you were done you removed the oil plug from the pan how much oil would come out. I’ll bet that MBRedux could tell us that if he were so inclined. I would trust his findings. My bet is that the pump “SUCKS”.
Did I say that it’s not about the money?
Now back to the subject bicker as you might you may all have a point but here is an interesting question. Suppose you used the pump to drain your oil and when you were done you removed the oil plug from the pan how much oil would come out. I’ll bet that MBRedux could tell us that if he were so inclined. I would trust his findings. My bet is that the pump “SUCKS”.
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Really wish to get deeper? Most if not all modern day automobiles (except racing) place the dipstick tube where it exits the block and into the pan at the highest shallowest part. But due to industry pressure by EPA/OSHA to reduce contaminant *exposure* to the technician, new procedures needed to be developed. The other incentive was that it reduced the service time and efforts by the service shop considerably, thus increasing profits. Mercedes soon redesigned the dipstick tube so that it entered the sump at the other end, near the lowest part of the sump. This allowed vacuum extractors, such as one made by CAP to extract the oil from the car in record time.
There are many forum and video sites that demonstrate this procedure very well, but they all repeatedly lie about one thing, that the dipstick tube goes all the way to the bottom of the oil sump. It doesn’t.
In slightly older cars that do not have the added benefit of a redesigned dipstick tube, there are internal baffles inside oil pans to help reduce *oil-splash* as you drive your car. They keep the oil in place so that in hard turns, or on bumpy roads, the oil intake feed to the engine’s oil pump doesn’t go dry.
So a service tech feeds the thin plastic catheter down your dipstick tube, (on older Benz’s) it first enters the pan at the highest shallow point. So the service tech would need to try and push this soft plastic catheter tube further down into the lowest parts of the sump to maximize the extraction.
This hardly ever happens because the tech will often encounter one or more of these internal baffles in the pan. Furthermore, these tiny plastic tubes are not large enough to properly extract the many metallic particles, (most as small as jewelers rouge) that accumulate and lay along the entire bottom of the oil sump.
That’s why most DIY’s know that you should change your oil only after a complete warm up because all those settled particles are now *suspended* in the oil, something no dealership EVER does.
In addition, even if you properly warm up the engine to suspend all those particles from the bottom, some are always left there. When you use the drain-plug method, the FORCE of the hot oil rushing through the drain hole will carry along most of the remaining metallic particles that lie along the bottom of the pan. This added benefit is NEVER obtained with a vacuum siphon; no matter how expensive it is because the plastic catheter or even the dipstick tube is stationary, sucking up from one location along the bottom!
Taking these three facts, that the dipstick tube on newer Benz’s doesn’t really go all the way to the bottom of the sump, two, if needed, a plastic catheter will most likely encounter something thus preventing it from ever truly reaching the sump bottom, and three, either of these tubes sucks from only one location unlike a moving vacuum cleaner, it’s impossible to extract all the oil and the metal contaminants that lay along the bottom of the pan, (not just in one convenient area) using this method, period.
Last edited by MBRedux; Dec 18, 2010 at 06:23 PM.
