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M275 V12 Bi-Turbo Platform Technical discussion relating to models sharing the M275 V12 Bi-Turbo (V12 TT). Including SL600, SL65 AMG, CL600, CL65 AMG, S600, S65 AMG.
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Cooling down the V12TT

 
Old 07-22-2017, 05:33 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Welwynnick View Post
Better intercooling will always increase power, but the Renntech pump is pretty good, and I don't think any further gains would be great. Zeph and I both have an BMW X3 engine radiator for an HE, so we went a bit overboard.

What does the Renntech HE look like?

Nick
The HE looks like this

Cooling down the V12TT-int-kit.jpg
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:21 AM
  #127  
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renntech pump is a pierburg 7.06754.05.0 relabeled and 600$ added
just replace the old pump, use a relay to "always on" when key ignition

bleeder tool for 150$
https://mbworld.org/forums/cl-class-...l-version.html

add AMG intercooler tank:
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...atibility.html

Full size intercooler radiator upgrade:
https://mbworld.org/forums/cl-class-...pgrade-dy.html


cooling mods:
https://mbworld.org/forums/cl-class-...oling-mod.html

Last edited by pmercury; 07-22-2017 at 11:41 AM. Reason: corrected last link
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:51 AM
  #128  
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By the way, just to encourage others who do not have a professional bleeding system, there is another way to completely bleed your system - Physics

It is not possible to bleed the system as a whole, that is true. It is possible to bleed the bits and pieces separately though. Assembly is a little tricky because each part needs to be completely filled with water while putting them together. And you have to temporarily attach water filled tubes to the parts you attach so that the amount of water that leaks at the bottom during attachment will follow back in from the top. I didn't manage to succeed in the first try, but during the second try it worked. I checked the pump with Xentry after 3 month, still absolutely zero air bubbles in the system. Zero!
Is it easy and convenient? Definitely not! Is it possible? Yes, it is. Spare tubes and water is all you need, hydrostatics do the rest for you.
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:03 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
By the way, just to encourage others who do not have a professional bleeding system, there is another way to completely bleed your system - Physics

It is not possible to bleed the system as a whole, that is true. It is possible to bleed the bits and pieces separately though. Assembly is a little tricky because each part needs to be completely filled with water while putting them together. And you have to temporarily attach water filled tubes to the parts you attach so that the amount of water that leaks at the bottom during attachment will follow back in from the top. I didn't manage to succeed in the first try, but during the second try it worked. I checked the pump with Xentry after 3 month, still absolutely zero air bubbles in the system. Zero!
Is it easy and convenient? Definitely not! Is it possible? Yes, it is. Spare tubes and water is all you need, hydrostatics do the rest for you.
you are right, but it is very cheap and easy to build the vacuum system I build

last week I removed intercoolers 4 times
without a tool for vacuum things would get difficult
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pmercury View Post
you are right, but it is very cheap and easy to build the vacuum system I build

last week I removed intercoolers 4 times
without a tool for vacuum things would get difficult
That is true, for my method you always have to rip the car apart again which is extremely inconvenient, so definitely not a permanent solution. I only did it because I had no vacuum system available at that time.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:22 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
The HE looks like this

Attachment 359297
That's not a very big heat exchanger, the stock HE is bigger than that.

I think there would be good scope for an upgrade.

Nick
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Welwynnick View Post
That's not a very big heat exchanger, the stock HE is bigger than that.

I think there would be good scope for an upgrade.

Nick
Sorry, maybe I did not make myself clear, I added this to the intercooler circuit together with the upgraded pump. It is not big, but as an addition it provides extra cooling for the intercoolers
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:43 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
Sorry, maybe I did not make myself clear, I added this to the intercooler circuit together with the upgraded pump. It is not big, but as an addition it provides extra cooling for the intercoolers
another great mod is a icebox in the trunk
6 gallons is fine 22 liters
add a second same piersburg or same pump you replaced in the front on the output of the icebox
this is on my NEXT list
(important: both pumps must be the same, whatever you have)
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pmercury View Post
another great mod is a icebox in the trunk
6 gallons is fine 22 liters
add a second same piersburg or same pump you replaced in the front on the output of the icebox
this is on my NEXT list
(important: both pumps must be the same, whatever you have)
Thanks for the advice. I want to stay as near to stock as possible though, so I would not like go down this route. I need every bit of space in the trunk I got, so an icebox would not work for me.
My max iats under load after some sporty country road driving (hard accelerating and hard breaking) are 75 degrees with ambient air temperature of 26 degrees. As soon as I drive normal again the iats drop to 65-67 degrees. Is this ok or could it be better?
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
Thanks for the advice. I want to stay as near to stock as possible though, so I would not like go down this route. I need every bit of space in the trunk I got, so an icebox would not work for me.
My max iats under load after some sporty country road driving (hard accelerating and hard breaking) are 75 degrees with ambient air temperature of 26 degrees. As soon as I drive normal again the iats drop to 65-67 degrees. Is this ok or could it be better?
it's very relative because of the ambient temps
but if you added a extra intercooler radiator you will be better as stock.
It's good to know where to stop.
Nick, some others and me are never have limits, we push it as far we can
have fun !
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:56 PM
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Yeah, some of you really try to get most out of the cars which I think is awesome. I am wondering, does anyone have comparison values which mod leads to what drop in IATs? I am particularly interested in a comparison between larger intercoolers like speedriven for example and an additional full size cooler in the intercooler circuit combined with a pierburg pump, maybe even with two pumps. A list with rough estimates would be awesome so that it is easier to decide what mod is worth the effort.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:12 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
Yeah, some of you really try to get most out of the cars which I think is awesome. I am wondering, does anyone have comparison values which mod leads to what drop in IATs? I am particularly interested in a comparison between larger intercoolers like speedriven for example and an additional full size cooler in the intercooler circuit combined with a pierburg pump, maybe even with two pumps. A list with rough estimates would be awesome so that it is easier to decide what mod is worth the effort.
see... you are close to breaking your limit
this engine is so fascinating !
I'm buying a W216 CL65 AMG I will just tune and leave stock for everyday drive
that way I can work on the W215 more
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:15 PM
  #138  
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:18 PM
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holy **** that thing is beautiful!
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
holy **** that thing is beautiful!
but I hate the wheels
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pmercury View Post
but I hate the wheels
That is true, I prefer the double spoke design. What are the highest iats you see on a hot day under load?
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
That is true, I prefer the double spoke design. What are the highest iats you see on a hot day under load?
intercooler temp ?
or engine temp ?
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:35 PM
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engine I guess, I measured with torque pro today and I guess the reading for air intake temperature means the temperature right before entering the engine. That's what I think at least
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:38 PM
  #144  
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I'll hook up DAS tomorrow and check for you what I have since I modified the hood
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
engine I guess, I measured with torque pro today and I guess the reading for air intake temperature means the temperature right before entering the engine. That's what I think at least
my engine runs at 82 Celsius now
it's 24 ambient here
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:42 PM
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When I park, after driving hard at a speed above 90 km/h, I can hold my hand on the intercoolers
the full size S600 intercooler radiator upgrade was the best mod over all
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pmercury View Post
When I park, after driving hard at a speed above 90 km/h, I can hold my hand on the intercoolers
the full size S600 intercooler radiator upgrade was the best mod over all
I have to find out at what temperature the engine management pulls power back and then verify that I stay away from this value. Then I am fine. In case I reach this value I have to find a solution. I would like to just double the massive HE of the S65 und use one for the intercooler circuit like you do. But I am too afraid of blocking the other coolers too much because I mainly use the car for high speed runs.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:37 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by black-series View Post
I have to find out at what temperature the engine management pulls power back and then verify that I stay away from this value. Then I am fine. In case I reach this value I have to find a solution. I would like to just double the massive HE of the S65 und use one for the intercooler circuit like you do. But I am too afraid of blocking the other coolers too much because I mainly use the car for high speed runs.
On the 221 at least:

Pump turns on at 60 Deg C
pump turns off at 30 deg C
ECU pulls timing at 65 deg c
ECU pulls boost at 70 Deg c.

My S65 has a separate header tank and a small portion of flow split off into a swirl pot, through the bleeder valves ports (Welwynnick great idea).

I did a long run yesterday, on the motorway (fast roads) at 50-60mph I see 40c+ intake tempreatures, if I approach a downhill section which invovles me using 0 throttle then the iat's rise slowly until they get to 59 Deg C then the pump turns on and they plummet to 25-28 Deg C as soon as a bit of flow and boost flows through them. I also have meth/water injection and that always keeps the temps in this range.

The only issue I have is that lets say I am at 40 Deg C intake temp with the pump OFF, I small pull will put the meth on and will drop intake temperatures and will not actuate the pump at all.

I like the idea of this control method, because then the water in the radiator gets super chilled, and so the pump is off on motorway runs, a sudden rise in take temperatures turns the pump on gives a larger temperature differential as the super cooled water hits the IC's, whilst accelerating, not sure it works that well with Meth, but my temps never go above 35-45 Deg C with ambient temps at around 10 Deg C.
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