asianbond

I've been lucky to own them all including the current w222.

What does everyone think about the w221? Consider it as good as the w126 or w140?

I have still have a S65 w221 and think its all the car one needs. The S500 w222 is nice and smooth, but not as raw and firm as the S65.


Just wondering in years to come how the W221 series will be known for. We all know the W220 was not mercedes best work.

Welwynnick

The S class seems to oscillate in a rather unstable way in response to society. Each model in turn makes a statement about Mercedes and about the individual. I think the positioning of the car and it's incremental development has taken unequal steps, partly reacting to perception of the previous model, and partly to the world around.

The W126 was probably spot on in it's time.
The W140 was probably over-done.
The W220 was probably under-done.
The W221 was probably over-done.
The W222 I'm not sure about yet, except that the grille is definitely too big.

Nick

superpop

The W222 seems to be a mid point upgrade to the W221 as most of the structure and drivetrain of the car is the same as the W221. The W222 looks like they took a W221 and put new fenders, and rear quarters on it and then redesigned the interior, which I happen to like better on the W222. I love my W221 but I will not keep it once the warranty is up just based on the horror stories of out of warranty repairs.

TNJohn

Why no joy for the w220? A well sorted, unabused late run example is a great car. I thought I wanted a w221and test drove a couple, but when got back in my car, a 2006 S500 AMG Appearance package, I felt back home. Sure, they don't take abuse or indifference like others, but it feels more like a driver's car than than later chassis.

Welwynnick

I'm a devout fan of the W220 as well, but remember this is a W221 forum!

Unlike it's predecessor, which shouts it's owner's wealth, the W220 is a much more unassuming car. Many have commented that they didn't realise how big it was until they stood next to mine, whereas the W140 or W221 are much more visually imposing.

Maybe the economy had moved on, or maybe MB had more than an eye on their emerging markets. S-class sales took a dive when the W140 was introduced, a trend that the 220 reversed, and the 222 seemed to be heading n the same direction until Tesla took hold.

People have debated 220 vs 221 for many years, and not much will change. The 220's are getting old though, and that may be enough to convince me to (reluctantly)move on.

Nick

slcbbrown

I think the 220 was a step away from the older s class styling, while the 221 is a return. I still think my s430 was as pretty as any car I've owned, and mine was largely trouble free, except for suspension issues.

The s550/w221 is much more in the "bulletproof limo" style, and with the 222 following with only subtle changes, this look is going to be around for a very long time. If the 222 model runs for 6 or 7 years, the basic look is all some people will be able to remember.

llcd

I like the exterior of the W221 the best. It was designed to have a dominating presence on the road. Those fenders are very masculine in nature.

dweb4

The W220 was a very good series I had one, but when I got w221 it was a big difference in appearance on the road and interior. I say the W221 will probably be the best S class series pound for pound as time goes on just my 2 pennies.

Welwynnick

Yes they are, but don't you think the design language is a bit "GTR" or "black series" rather than "limousine"?

On the whole, I think the S-class is supposed to be mature and aloof, rather than slammed and aggressive.

Nick

Welwynnick

Could you describe the differences?


Thanks, Nick

superpop

The 221 looks and feels substantial while the 220 looks and feels more like a Lexus. My 2012 still looks relevant 5 years later. Opinions are like, well, you know. This is a 221 subforum after all.

DaveW68

Put the W222 S600 Maybach interior inside the W221 body and you would have the ultimate big Benz.

Welwynnick

There seem to be both subjective and objective differences between the models.

Subjectively, some say the older car is simple and classy, and the 221 is fussy and aggressive.
Others see the 221 as modern, well-judged boldness, leaving the 220 as old, bland and looking like a bar of soap. Those arguments won't get resolved.

Can I ask about the more objective differences?

1. Does the 221 have more room? (My 220 is short on headroom, and the trunk isn't very big)
2. Does the 221 ride better? (I read that it rides and handles more softly).
3. Is the 221 quieter? (New cars are usually quieter than old cars, and the 220 wasn't especially quiet).
4. Is the 221 more reliable? (Probably the 220's bugbear, and my 2004 car is becoming a cause for concern).
5. Is the 221 interior plasticy? (My 220 600 has leather everywhere, but some say the 221 is more plasticy? Other's say there's none - not even switches. Confused).
6. Are the 221 front seats more comfortable? This seems to be controversial.
7. Are the 221 rear seat any more comfortable? (Compared with the front, the 220 is second-class in the back, and the cushion is lower than my wife's Ford Focus).

Thanks, Nick

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

1. Yes, especially in the back.
2. S55 VS S63, no. Could be 18 VS 20 rims?
3. No, see above.
4. So far!
5. Much more leather in my S63 and less plastic. Metal switches on the S63!
6. Yes they are! Both were very comfortable but I prefer the S63 seats.
7. Much more!
Vince

TNJohn

Vince is spot on. I drove a 2007 S65 Designo today and agree with the above. However, I found the ride to be surprisingly comfortable. I have driven 2 S63s in the past and thought they rode harshly. There may be a difference in ride programming between the two. The best feature of the w221 over the w220 is the increased headroom. I'm 6'3" and there is only about 5mm between my head and the roof in the S500.

I do love the w220, but there is a solid case for the w221.

John

DaveW68

1. Without a doubt it's bigger. Lots of leg room at every position with plenty of room to stretch your legs. Although we only get the long wheel base in the states, so I'm sure the regular wheel base available in Europe likely have at least 6 inches less less room in the back seat. The W221 also looks more imposing than the W220. The W221 actually has more interior room than those monster looking W140s.

2. I guess that depends on what your standard of "riding better" is. The S600 cars with standard ABC handle awesome and are extremely compliant and mellow over road imperfections, even with AMG 20" wheels. In the AMG models, the ABC is tuned for a much sportier and firmer ride, so going from a W220 S500 to a W221 S63 or S65 will feel much different and a little harsher.

3. My S600 is whisper quite...very Lexus like. I know the S550's are also very quiet. The AMG models are louder with throaty exhaust.

4. All of the engines are rock solid in W221 cars. But the 7 speed auto in the S550 and S63 prior to 2012 had questionable reliability at best. That seems to be the bane of those cars. The 5 speed auto in the S600 and S65 are generally bullet proof and can handle ridiculous amounts of torque. The 221's have a ton more technology in them, so there is more stuff that can go wrong and be very pricey to fix, especially as the cars age. Even low mileage cars that are aged are subject to failures because the parts are getting old.

5. My S600 only has plastic in a few places where leather wouldn't make any sense. The rest of the car is wrapped in soft leather and burled walnut, including the dash, door panels, and steering wheel (except the wood portions). All of the switches are metal. The S65 is similarly equipped. The S550 and S63 have a lot more vinyl and plastics in them than the 600/65, but still have less cheaper materials than the W220's. Comparing the same model W220's vs W221's (such as S500 vs S550, S600 vs S600, S63 vs S55, etc), there is a huge step up in material quality and luxury feel.

6. This is subjective. The S600 and the S65 have very supple Napa leather (not available in the S550 and S63) that is extremely comfortable, but the seats can seem a bit firm. For a long trip, your body will feel better after riding in a W221 vs a W220 since the seats are more supportive. Plus the W221 has available multi level massage that can help relax a sore back (standard in the S600/65).

7. The back seat in the LWB W221 is ridiculously comfortable with loads of leg room. And if you opt for the S600 or S65, you'll get the Napa leather and reclining/massaging seats along with auto head rests and window shades. Most S550's and S63's do not have the back seat package, but are still very comfortable. It's easy to fall asleep in the back seat of these cars.

Over all, the W221 was a huge step up over the W220. From its larger size, to more aggressive looks and loads more technology, its hard to ever say that the W220 is better in any way than the W221. If you opt for the S600 or S65, you are getting the best of the best...and cars that beat Bentley in multiple auto rag comparo's.

llcd

I wonder if some car shop can do this. Take the body of the W221 and
remove its interior and replace it with a W222s interior ?

I agree, that would be a great S Class.

llcd

Here is a review I found on W221 which is more technical in nature.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/mercedes/s550.htm

asianbond

What bug me about the w220 was i always thought the overall car was more plasticky from the exterior door handles to the interior switches that did not wear well. And the w221 did a great job with using some alloy interior switch gear. The w221 door feels much more solid when closing like the w140, whereas i did not get that feeling in the w220.

I personally think the w221 is a step up from w220, but that's my subjective opinion.

alexanderfoti

Comparing my CL55 vs my 221 S65

1. Much larger in the back, same in the front
2. Night and day for me, smoother on the 221, however, I had 19inch mono blocks on the CL and 19 inch AMG VI wheels on the 221 with much larger profile.
3. Much quieter. the 221 was quietest in its class, surpassing Bentley and Rolls-Royce at the time.
4. About the same for me so far, have had issues with the Electronic handbrake and rear harmon kardon amp, apart from that, same issues that affect the 275 engine in the 220/215 affect it in the 221/216.
5. Less plasticy than the 220. Especially around seat trims. Non top models don't get the leather dash but its still not that bad. The only plastic visible is the steering wheel buttons, dash surround and right/left vents.
6. AMG VS AMG the 221 are less sporty and more comfortable, (probably an amg thing)
7. my LWB has full rear seat adjustment/heating/massage cooling etc.

Cyberous

I agree. The new W222 is very nice but looks too much like the C and E to spend that kind of money. I like the boxy looks of the 140 so naturally attracted to the W221.

The W222 reminds me of W220 as others have said.

Welwynnick

There's lots of talk about how the W221 uses alloy switches instead of plastic on the W220.

However, the W220 & W215 introduced a lot of weight saving measures, including an alloy front subframe. Very strong, but can be lifted with one finger.



The W221 went back to a welded pressed steel subframe. The only reason for doing that is to save money.




Yes, I like aluminium switches too, but I also like it being used where I can't see it, because it makes the car lighter and improves the weight distribution.

This sort of thing won't stop me buying a W221, but the W220 wasn't all bad.

Nick

compaddict

iTrader: (1)

That is a huge difference.

DaveW68

Then you should get the S600. The 5000 lb curb weight doesn't mean squat when you've got 613 lb/ft of thrust and a zero to 60 time in the low 4's while being coddled in ultimate comfort, quiet, and every bit of automotive technology known to man when introduced. Plus, if you really want to go crazy, you can send your ECU over to Eurocharged to pump the HP up over 620 and torque to around 750 for just over $1k.

alexanderfoti

Yes the 221 is quite a bit heavier as a result. Plastic front wings, ali boot and doors but steel rear section.

mine is 2280kg wet!