Owners Of New M5 Seem Dissappointed
11-16-2005, 04:28 PM
#76
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im with you thats why I said we need to see more people bring there cars in and dyno them here.
there was an article but the link is gone now that got 471whp on a hub dyno so these claims are not that far off.
bmw gain power with headers and exhaust systems.Check out evo sports new headers for the m3.
it made like 20 more ftlb and 30whp with there full setup
there was an article but the link is gone now that got 471whp on a hub dyno so these claims are not that far off.
bmw gain power with headers and exhaust systems.Check out evo sports new headers for the m3.
it made like 20 more ftlb and 30whp with there full setup
11-16-2005, 05:37 PM
#77
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
bmw gain power with headers and exhaust systems.Check out evo sports new headers for the m3.
it made like 20 more ftlb and 30whp with there full setup
it made like 20 more ftlb and 30whp with there full setup
Hub dynos typically read a good bit higher than a true chassis dyno. You use around 9% drive loss on a hub dyno vs a 15% loss on a Dynojet in your typical manual equipped car. I'd bet the BMW SMG tranny is even more efficient than a typical manual tranny and certainly more efficient than the Mercedes auto. In essence, the m5 made around 516 crank hp on the wheel dyno but I think a more accurate loss on this dyno would be around 7% for the M5. Again, the comparison between an E55 and an M5 is worthless without side by side dyno runs on a good independent dyno, preferably a Dynojet.
Hub vs wheel dyno
11-16-2005, 07:07 PM
#79
Another way to look at how much power car makes is to look at the MPH at the end of the 1/4 mile.
The formula is simple - HP = ((MPH x 0.00426) cubed)/car's weight.
Assuming 4000 vehicle weight, with 200 lb. driver we are around 4200 lbs, which is probably within 50 lbs. for most owners.
So far we have seen 113-114 MPH, so plugging the numbers into the formula gives us - ((114 x 0.00426)) cubed / 4200 = 480HP.
At:
115 MPH - 494 HP
116 MPH - 507 HP
117 MPH - 520 HP
118 MPH - 533 HP
119 MPH - 547 HP
120 MPH - 561 HP
British Autocar published 12.2 @ 118 MPH, during one of the early tests. Most others I have seen were at around high 12s, low 13s with MPHs in 115 range.
The formula is simple - HP = ((MPH x 0.00426) cubed)/car's weight.
Assuming 4000 vehicle weight, with 200 lb. driver we are around 4200 lbs, which is probably within 50 lbs. for most owners.
So far we have seen 113-114 MPH, so plugging the numbers into the formula gives us - ((114 x 0.00426)) cubed / 4200 = 480HP.
At:
115 MPH - 494 HP
116 MPH - 507 HP
117 MPH - 520 HP
118 MPH - 533 HP
119 MPH - 547 HP
120 MPH - 561 HP
British Autocar published 12.2 @ 118 MPH, during one of the early tests. Most others I have seen were at around high 12s, low 13s with MPHs in 115 range.
11-16-2005, 10:42 PM
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2005 Brilliant Silver E55
Originally Posted by VelocitE55
The E55/CLS55 dyno around 430whp which also puts them in the 516 Crank HP area. 
In any case, after my 1200 mile service, I'm dyno'ing the M5. I still think dyno'ing is really irrelevant because it STILL HAS NO LOW END POWER.
11-16-2005, 10:43 PM
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I should add, I feel no difference at all in my M5 between the P400 and P500 in 0 to 5500RPM range.
I am SERIOUSLY considering doing what Derek did...sell the M5 if I don't take a bath on the car.
I am SERIOUSLY considering doing what Derek did...sell the M5 if I don't take a bath on the car.
11-16-2005, 10:45 PM
#85
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Originally Posted by E55_POWER
Actually, they're closer to 410 to 418.
In any case, after my 1200 mile service, I'm dyno'ing the M5. I still think dyno'ing is really irrelevant because it STILL HAS NO LOW END POWER.
In any case, after my 1200 mile service, I'm dyno'ing the M5. I still think dyno'ing is really irrelevant because it STILL HAS NO LOW END POWER.
some dynos are showing a little dip and then the tourqe ramps up quick to its peak
11-16-2005, 11:00 PM
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2005 Brilliant Silver E55
Originally Posted by skratch77
hey e55 can you tell me if you can feel a dip in tourqe from the but dyno from 4k-5k
some dynos are showing a little dip and then the tourqe ramps up quick to its peak
some dynos are showing a little dip and then the tourqe ramps up quick to its peak
Honestly, I can't say, but the car ramps up quite a bit past 5500. The key to the M5 is to keep the car above 5500RPM for optimal power.
11-16-2005, 11:06 PM
#87
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Originally Posted by E55_POWER
Honestly, I can't say, but the car ramps up quite a bit past 5500. The key to the M5 is to keep the car above 5500RPM for optimal power.
im sure there will be 411 rear ends out there soon after the tuners start messing with better gearing.
11-16-2005, 11:15 PM
#88
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Originally Posted by skratch77
im with you thats why I said we need to see more people bring there cars in and dyno them here.
there was an article but the link is gone now that got 471whp on a hub dyno so these claims are not that far off.
bmw gain power with headers and exhaust systems.Check out evo sports new headers for the m3.
it made like 20 more ftlb and 30whp with there full setup
there was an article but the link is gone now that got 471whp on a hub dyno so these claims are not that far off.
bmw gain power with headers and exhaust systems.Check out evo sports new headers for the m3.
it made like 20 more ftlb and 30whp with there full setup
Agreed - we need more owners to get there cars dyno'd and make some real timed runs. My experience is that all factory exhaust manifolds are restrictive. I thought I read that the M5 and M6 have factory headers. I know for most small block V-8's you can pick up 20 to 25 rwhp just be swapping out the factory manifolds for headers. If the M's already come with a decent set of stainless headers, then the gains from aftermarket headers are probably more limited. My two cents.
11-16-2005, 11:16 PM
#89
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Originally Posted by E55_POWER
Actually, they're closer to 410 to 418.
In any case, after my 1200 mile service, I'm dyno'ing the M5. I still think dyno'ing is really irrelevant because it STILL HAS NO LOW END POWER.
In any case, after my 1200 mile service, I'm dyno'ing the M5. I still think dyno'ing is really irrelevant because it STILL HAS NO LOW END POWER.
The old "power under the curve" issue, huh?
11-16-2005, 11:42 PM
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06 SLK55
Originally Posted by Improviz
Honestly, guys, this isn't difficult: what is relevant is the stuff the BMW does better, along with the subjective criterion that the BMW owners deem relevant. Everyting else is irrelevant, for all people, everywhere. Thus spaketh Gustav, the High Priest of BMW, and thou shalt not question His will.
So, for example, 1/4 mile times are irrelevant, because the Mercedes has been tested faster down there. Only races in that crucial band from 120-160 mph or so, where the two extra gears of the M5 give it a critical advantage, are relevant. The M5 handles better, so this is relevant. But it gets lower fuel economy, so this is irrelevant. The BMW makes all of its power up high and has its torque peak at 10,000 rpm, so the low-end torque of the E55 is irrelevant. The Benz transmission's smooth, flawless shifts are easier to live with than the jerky performance of the SMG, so this, too, is irrelevant.
See how simple it is?
Furthermore, as any idiot knows when purchasing a 4,000 pound, $90,000 luxury automobile, only performance numbers--excepting acceleration, which only counts from 120-160 mph--and track times are relevant, unless, of course, one points out that if performance numbers are the highest priority, one could buy a $65,000 Corvette Z06, or a used Turbo Porsche, either of which beat the BMW in all of these performance numbers and turn faster track times, at which point the performance numbers become irrelevant. Oh, and if you point this out, your opinion is not relevant.
Subjective opinions are irrelevant, unless those subjective opinions are in favor of the BMW. If you like the appearence, ameneties, creature comforts, or any features of Mercedes better, your opinion is not relevant. If you think the new M5 looks like a cross between the Batmobile and a Passat, your opinion is not relevant. If you dislike IDrive, your opinion is not relevant. If, on the other hand, you think the BMW M5 is the most beautiful oblect in the universe and would rather read a Sport Auto road test on the M5 than the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue, then you are not only relevant, but are a prime candidate to join the Order of Gustav.
Lastly, videos which show the M5 losing are irrelevant. Only videos of BMW-provided test cars pulling cars tested the same or faster in mags, including, interestingly enough, a video of a BMW-provided M6 stomping a factory M5 which Gustav posted both on his website and here, are relevant.
Now, some of you might think it odd that a BMW-provided test car, an M6, which has the same engine, gearing, rated horsepower, larger tires which slow it down at higher speeds due to increased friction and aerodynamic drag, would pull a factory-produced M5 by seven or eight carlengths at speed, but I'm here to tell you: your opinion is not relevant. There is nothing at all unusual about this, and the fact that the test car ran away from the assembly line car proves nothing. Nada. Zip. Because I'm here to tell you, you whining, paranoid, BMW-hating unpatriotic conspiracy theorists, that there is nothing, yes, NOTHING, suspicious of this run AT ALL.
And if you think otherwise, you are irrelevant. :-) Further, if you attempt to engage in any discussions of these matters in Gustav the High Priest's temple, you shall be slandered and banished from the temple. No insubordination, dissent, or blaspheme will be tolerated!!!
So, for example, 1/4 mile times are irrelevant, because the Mercedes has been tested faster down there. Only races in that crucial band from 120-160 mph or so, where the two extra gears of the M5 give it a critical advantage, are relevant. The M5 handles better, so this is relevant. But it gets lower fuel economy, so this is irrelevant. The BMW makes all of its power up high and has its torque peak at 10,000 rpm, so the low-end torque of the E55 is irrelevant. The Benz transmission's smooth, flawless shifts are easier to live with than the jerky performance of the SMG, so this, too, is irrelevant.
See how simple it is?
Furthermore, as any idiot knows when purchasing a 4,000 pound, $90,000 luxury automobile, only performance numbers--excepting acceleration, which only counts from 120-160 mph--and track times are relevant, unless, of course, one points out that if performance numbers are the highest priority, one could buy a $65,000 Corvette Z06, or a used Turbo Porsche, either of which beat the BMW in all of these performance numbers and turn faster track times, at which point the performance numbers become irrelevant. Oh, and if you point this out, your opinion is not relevant.
Subjective opinions are irrelevant, unless those subjective opinions are in favor of the BMW. If you like the appearence, ameneties, creature comforts, or any features of Mercedes better, your opinion is not relevant. If you think the new M5 looks like a cross between the Batmobile and a Passat, your opinion is not relevant. If you dislike IDrive, your opinion is not relevant. If, on the other hand, you think the BMW M5 is the most beautiful oblect in the universe and would rather read a Sport Auto road test on the M5 than the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue, then you are not only relevant, but are a prime candidate to join the Order of Gustav.
Lastly, videos which show the M5 losing are irrelevant. Only videos of BMW-provided test cars pulling cars tested the same or faster in mags, including, interestingly enough, a video of a BMW-provided M6 stomping a factory M5 which Gustav posted both on his website and here, are relevant.
Now, some of you might think it odd that a BMW-provided test car, an M6, which has the same engine, gearing, rated horsepower, larger tires which slow it down at higher speeds due to increased friction and aerodynamic drag, would pull a factory-produced M5 by seven or eight carlengths at speed, but I'm here to tell you: your opinion is not relevant. There is nothing at all unusual about this, and the fact that the test car ran away from the assembly line car proves nothing. Nada. Zip. Because I'm here to tell you, you whining, paranoid, BMW-hating unpatriotic conspiracy theorists, that there is nothing, yes, NOTHING, suspicious of this run AT ALL.
And if you think otherwise, you are irrelevant. :-) Further, if you attempt to engage in any discussions of these matters in Gustav the High Priest's temple, you shall be slandered and banished from the temple. No insubordination, dissent, or blaspheme will be tolerated!!!
11-16-2005, 11:47 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by Improviz
Ah, the trolls are out in force tonight. We've been here before, and your protestations are easily shown to be worthless:
But you are not here for honest discussion; you, as he, are here to attack Mercedes and defend attackers of Mercedes. Period. You have no objectivity, and no credibility. In every instance where a BMW owner trolls and we attack him, you defend him and attack us. You are a tool and a troll, a piece of ****e, nothing more.
I invite people to look at your posting history:
time and time and time again you spring to the defense of BMW (and BMW trolls),
and in fact just in observing the first series of posts in your history, what do we see:
- three posts attacking me for going after BMW trolls;
- a post in favor of the BMW X5 in which you took a cheap shot at AMG;
- a post where you brag about the M5's track capabilities;
- posts from a thread into which you (and lardass)interjected yourself and took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars;
- posts from a different thread into which you interjected yourself, and, again, took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars and daring to compare them to your beloved M5;
- a post where you advise people who want a good-handling car with space and acceleration to buy an M5;
- a post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- another post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- a post where you compare the appearance of the CLS to an Acura;
- a post in which you wax poetic about the beauty of the Z4;
- a post in which you claim an E55 is "ugly";
- several more posts, like this one, where you defend the M5 and put down the AMGs;
- a post where you tell the owner of a C55 that he should have purchased an M3;
- a post where you wrote about how great it was that an M5 pulled an Audi RS6;
- a post where you wrote that "engine wise, chassis wise, and handling wise, BMW is on top";
- a post where you put down the C Class' handling and talk up the BMW 3 Series;
- a post where you claim that BMW's 3 Series sales figures are better than those of the C Class;
...and so on, and so on, and so on, for well over 100 posts....basically all that you have done since you arrived here is interject yourself into any Mercedes-vs-BMW thread you can find and post derogatory material about Mercedes, favorable material about BMW, and attack anyone who goes after any BMW troll or (gasp) exhibits more enthusiasm for Mercedes AMG cars than BMW M cars. You have started no threads, only entered into those involving BMW, on the side of BMW, against Mercedes. You have contributed absolutely nothing to this forum other than snide remarks and plugs for BMW.
So much for your objectivity or credibility. Just another troll, nothing more.
But you are not here for honest discussion; you, as he, are here to attack Mercedes and defend attackers of Mercedes. Period. You have no objectivity, and no credibility. In every instance where a BMW owner trolls and we attack him, you defend him and attack us. You are a tool and a troll, a piece of ****e, nothing more.
I invite people to look at your posting history:
time and time and time again you spring to the defense of BMW (and BMW trolls),
and in fact just in observing the first series of posts in your history, what do we see:
- three posts attacking me for going after BMW trolls;
- a post in favor of the BMW X5 in which you took a cheap shot at AMG;
- a post where you brag about the M5's track capabilities;
- posts from a thread into which you (and lardass)interjected yourself and took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars;
- posts from a different thread into which you interjected yourself, and, again, took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars and daring to compare them to your beloved M5;
- a post where you advise people who want a good-handling car with space and acceleration to buy an M5;
- a post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- another post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- a post where you compare the appearance of the CLS to an Acura;
- a post in which you wax poetic about the beauty of the Z4;
- a post in which you claim an E55 is "ugly";
- several more posts, like this one, where you defend the M5 and put down the AMGs;
- a post where you tell the owner of a C55 that he should have purchased an M3;
- a post where you wrote about how great it was that an M5 pulled an Audi RS6;
- a post where you wrote that "engine wise, chassis wise, and handling wise, BMW is on top";
- a post where you put down the C Class' handling and talk up the BMW 3 Series;
- a post where you claim that BMW's 3 Series sales figures are better than those of the C Class;
...and so on, and so on, and so on, for well over 100 posts....basically all that you have done since you arrived here is interject yourself into any Mercedes-vs-BMW thread you can find and post derogatory material about Mercedes, favorable material about BMW, and attack anyone who goes after any BMW troll or (gasp) exhibits more enthusiasm for Mercedes AMG cars than BMW M cars. You have started no threads, only entered into those involving BMW, on the side of BMW, against Mercedes. You have contributed absolutely nothing to this forum other than snide remarks and plugs for BMW.
So much for your objectivity or credibility. Just another troll, nothing more.
pwn3d
Last edited by Falco; 11-16-2005 at 11:53 PM.
11-17-2005, 12:36 AM
#92
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Originally Posted by Improviz
Ah, the trolls are out in force tonight. We've been here before, and your protestations are easily shown to be worthless:
But you are not here for honest discussion; you, as he, are here to attack Mercedes and defend attackers of Mercedes. Period. You have no objectivity, and no credibility. In every instance where a BMW owner trolls and we attack him, you defend him and attack us. You are a tool and a troll, a piece of ****e, nothing more.
I invite people to look at your posting history:
time and time and time again you spring to the defense of BMW (and BMW trolls),
and in fact just in observing the first series of posts in your history, what do we see:
- three posts attacking me for going after BMW trolls;
- a post in favor of the BMW X5 in which you took a cheap shot at AMG;
- a post where you brag about the M5's track capabilities;
- posts from a thread into which you (and lardass)interjected yourself and took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars;
- posts from a different thread into which you interjected yourself, and, again, took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars and daring to compare them to your beloved M5;
- a post where you advise people who want a good-handling car with space and acceleration to buy an M5;
- a post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- another post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- a post where you compare the appearance of the CLS to an Acura;
- a post in which you wax poetic about the beauty of the Z4;
- a post in which you claim an E55 is "ugly";
- several more posts, like this one, where you defend the M5 and put down the AMGs;
- a post where you tell the owner of a C55 that he should have purchased an M3;
- a post where you wrote about how great it was that an M5 pulled an Audi RS6;
- a post where you wrote that "engine wise, chassis wise, and handling wise, BMW is on top";
- a post where you put down the C Class' handling and talk up the BMW 3 Series;
- a post where you claim that BMW's 3 Series sales figures are better than those of the C Class;
...and so on, and so on, and so on, for well over 100 posts....basically all that you have done since you arrived here is interject yourself into any Mercedes-vs-BMW thread you can find and post derogatory material about Mercedes, favorable material about BMW, and attack anyone who goes after any BMW troll or (gasp) exhibits more enthusiasm for Mercedes AMG cars than BMW M cars. You have started no threads, only entered into those involving BMW, on the side of BMW, against Mercedes. You have contributed absolutely nothing to this forum other than snide remarks and plugs for BMW.
So much for your objectivity or credibility. Just another troll, nothing more.
But you are not here for honest discussion; you, as he, are here to attack Mercedes and defend attackers of Mercedes. Period. You have no objectivity, and no credibility. In every instance where a BMW owner trolls and we attack him, you defend him and attack us. You are a tool and a troll, a piece of ****e, nothing more.
I invite people to look at your posting history:
time and time and time again you spring to the defense of BMW (and BMW trolls),
and in fact just in observing the first series of posts in your history, what do we see:
- three posts attacking me for going after BMW trolls;
- a post in favor of the BMW X5 in which you took a cheap shot at AMG;
- a post where you brag about the M5's track capabilities;
- posts from a thread into which you (and lardass)interjected yourself and took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars;
- posts from a different thread into which you interjected yourself, and, again, took cheap shots at AMG owners for actually liking their cars and daring to compare them to your beloved M5;
- a post where you advise people who want a good-handling car with space and acceleration to buy an M5;
- a post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- another post where you attack the appearance of Mercedes;
- a post where you compare the appearance of the CLS to an Acura;
- a post in which you wax poetic about the beauty of the Z4;
- a post in which you claim an E55 is "ugly";
- several more posts, like this one, where you defend the M5 and put down the AMGs;
- a post where you tell the owner of a C55 that he should have purchased an M3;
- a post where you wrote about how great it was that an M5 pulled an Audi RS6;
- a post where you wrote that "engine wise, chassis wise, and handling wise, BMW is on top";
- a post where you put down the C Class' handling and talk up the BMW 3 Series;
- a post where you claim that BMW's 3 Series sales figures are better than those of the C Class;
...and so on, and so on, and so on, for well over 100 posts....basically all that you have done since you arrived here is interject yourself into any Mercedes-vs-BMW thread you can find and post derogatory material about Mercedes, favorable material about BMW, and attack anyone who goes after any BMW troll or (gasp) exhibits more enthusiasm for Mercedes AMG cars than BMW M cars. You have started no threads, only entered into those involving BMW, on the side of BMW, against Mercedes. You have contributed absolutely nothing to this forum other than snide remarks and plugs for BMW.
So much for your objectivity or credibility. Just another troll, nothing more.
*still sleeping"
Wake me up when you are are done....please ... you are so owned...not by anyone ... but yourself... I for one don't bother reading your pages long essays and links ... for you are talking about the same thing out of your 1300+ posts...
This just show how silly you are... people here are all educated dude, if they think I am a throll, they will, don't need you to write essays just to prove a useless point.
I for one thought we could finally have a fair thread comparing the 2 cars until you jumped in.....
*back to sleep*
11-17-2005, 12:40 AM
#94
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CLS55 AMG
Lol, whatever, MikeHeadKase...
...if you think there's a single person on here who doesn't see what you're here for after reading that little chronology, you're even dumber than I thought--and that says a lot.
Last edited by Improviz; 11-17-2005 at 12:54 AM.
11-17-2005, 02:23 AM
#95
MBWorld Fanatic!
Drove the new M5 today
So, had the opportunity to drive an M5 today for a few hours. The car was loaned to my friend who is a high end used dealer and had over 4400 miles on the clock. Most of them very hard judging from the condition of the tires and scratches on the front airdam and wheel scrapes.
DISCLAIMER: All my opinion and no science involved. Impromptu invitation to drive one before mine comes in. Not a comaprison to any one car in particular nor whether it is better or worse than the E55.
We made a few stops in town before leaving Campbell and taking 17 to Santa Cruz. My overall impression after the first 30 minutes of in town driving was not favorable. SMG is much improved but this is a heavy car with relatively low torque in the bottom end. Starts are just like the Ferrari 360. Not enough gas and you look like a rookie. Too much gas and you draw a lot of attention to yourself. God forbid if you happen to be in the wrong gear and need a quick squirt of power. The way the engine relies on the trans to be in the right gear is not very streetable for the way I like to drive. There is not enough torque available at cruising RPM. Again, very much like the 360. Does not matter what performance level you choose, you must downshift to get to the power.
On to the freeway and this car flat out screams! I mean it. Engine and exhaust sound heavenly at WOT. I'm starting to like this car so much more on the freeway. The twisting highway is crowded with cars and slow trucks but the high revving M engine and go-kart like handling really make passing them a snap. Too bad the speed limit is 50MPH. Side trip to Glenwood Cutoff (narrow, winding, uneven 150 year old paved wagon trail) was fun for about 2 minutes. This car sucks in the bumps. It is so stiff that it skitters across the road when it encounters heavy bumps around corners. OK, I was going faster than ever before in any other car but at the limit, it was not fun. Maybe it was the lack of any warning at the limit combined with the lack of guard rails on this road that made me back way off. I spun half way around one constant radius corner without any warning because of a decent hump inthe middle. My W208 does this too but at a much slower speed.
Back to the highway and then to the two lane track to Skyline (more twisties). This car was as much fun as a Ferrari or P car and more comfortable. On smooth roads, the car is very well behaved but not exactly quiet. It is screaming all the time when in its powerband. The transmission does such a great job that shifting in the middle of corners is not a problem. I'm liking this car more!
Back down Highway 280 for some higher speed runs. 60-120 in a blink of an eye...IF you start in the right gear. Gear down before taunting the ricers! Almost lost to a tricked out WRX but a couple of flips of the shifter and it was over. Taunted a few other cars but not much interest. Hit 140 on a particular stretch in what feels like half the distance of the 575M I drove there before. This car is really designed for high speed Autobahn running. It pulls like a top fuel dragster at 100, 120, 140 MPH. I like this car a lot!
Back into San Jose and lots of traffic. This is where the fun ends. The car is a pain to drive at slow speeds. No torque and tons of revs. This car is begging for the open road. It can overcome this problem with gearing but that only makes me look like I'm trying to race everyone. Did I mention that it is hard to drive this car at low speed without attracting too much attention? Smile started fading from my face. The last 10 miles of stop and go traffic back to the shop were wearing me out.
Aftermath: Gas mileage was a dismal 12.2MPG for the 94 miles (only about 1.5 less than what I'm used to for that kind of driving). My kidneys are sore from the pounding of the suspension. My face hurts from the ear to ear grin I had while driving it. I was very pleased with the handling but not the lack of compliance. 4000+ lbs is a lot of heft to toss around and the M5 does not disappoint here. Where I was disapointed was that the ride was not more supple on the highway. A tradeoff for sure. The engine is a work of functional art but 8000RPM shifts are kind of strange in a luxury sedan. Power delivery was very (air cooled) Porsche Turbo like. Slow to build until about 4500RPM and then hang on but you better be prepared to shift RIGHT NOW! Also very Porsche like is the fact that this car likes, no needs to be revved high while cruising. Steering is very precise but a little heavier than I like. Brakes are perfect.
Interior: Way too complicated for me. Maybe it takes some getting used to but iDrive stinks. With no instruction manual in the car, I could not figure out Lauch Control. I gave up after 10 minutes since I would only have the car a few hours and commute traffic on the highway was getting worse. Controls are comfortable but in the wrong places. Again, I'll get used to it. Too much plastic for my taste. Seats are harder than I'd like. The interior fit and finish is on par with my $50K Touareg not a $100K BMW. Very disappointing.
Exterior: I hope it grows on me. Wheels are as fugly as the rest of the car. Maybe a new set will soften the ugliness or maybe it will just look like I put a prom dress on a pig.
PLUS:This is as close to racecar as it gets while still hauling 5 people and gear. MINUS:This is as close to racecar as it gets while still hauling 5 people and gear.
Well, it has been 4 hours since I gave the car back and I have mixed emotions. The car performs like one that is half its size and weight. The engine puts out a wail that is only matched by the start of an F1 race. Very few cars will be able to touch it on the open road and not cost 2x as much and draw a ton of attention to them themselves. However, I drive in town and in traffic a lot. This car sucks in both places. I traded my 996 TT X50 because I hated driving it in town and traffic. The M5 would probably be the same way.
And it is so damn ugly! I have a solid offer of $7500 over sticker (my price)right now for my car when it comes in next month. As it stands today, I am more inclined to take the cash and wait for the E63 than to buy another car that I'll rarely drive. Maybe I need to ask for another drive....
DISCLAIMER: All my opinion and no science involved. Impromptu invitation to drive one before mine comes in. Not a comaprison to any one car in particular nor whether it is better or worse than the E55.
We made a few stops in town before leaving Campbell and taking 17 to Santa Cruz. My overall impression after the first 30 minutes of in town driving was not favorable. SMG is much improved but this is a heavy car with relatively low torque in the bottom end. Starts are just like the Ferrari 360. Not enough gas and you look like a rookie. Too much gas and you draw a lot of attention to yourself. God forbid if you happen to be in the wrong gear and need a quick squirt of power. The way the engine relies on the trans to be in the right gear is not very streetable for the way I like to drive. There is not enough torque available at cruising RPM. Again, very much like the 360. Does not matter what performance level you choose, you must downshift to get to the power.
On to the freeway and this car flat out screams! I mean it. Engine and exhaust sound heavenly at WOT. I'm starting to like this car so much more on the freeway. The twisting highway is crowded with cars and slow trucks but the high revving M engine and go-kart like handling really make passing them a snap. Too bad the speed limit is 50MPH. Side trip to Glenwood Cutoff (narrow, winding, uneven 150 year old paved wagon trail) was fun for about 2 minutes. This car sucks in the bumps. It is so stiff that it skitters across the road when it encounters heavy bumps around corners. OK, I was going faster than ever before in any other car but at the limit, it was not fun. Maybe it was the lack of any warning at the limit combined with the lack of guard rails on this road that made me back way off. I spun half way around one constant radius corner without any warning because of a decent hump inthe middle. My W208 does this too but at a much slower speed.
Back to the highway and then to the two lane track to Skyline (more twisties). This car was as much fun as a Ferrari or P car and more comfortable. On smooth roads, the car is very well behaved but not exactly quiet. It is screaming all the time when in its powerband. The transmission does such a great job that shifting in the middle of corners is not a problem. I'm liking this car more!
Back down Highway 280 for some higher speed runs. 60-120 in a blink of an eye...IF you start in the right gear. Gear down before taunting the ricers! Almost lost to a tricked out WRX but a couple of flips of the shifter and it was over. Taunted a few other cars but not much interest. Hit 140 on a particular stretch in what feels like half the distance of the 575M I drove there before. This car is really designed for high speed Autobahn running. It pulls like a top fuel dragster at 100, 120, 140 MPH. I like this car a lot!
Back into San Jose and lots of traffic. This is where the fun ends. The car is a pain to drive at slow speeds. No torque and tons of revs. This car is begging for the open road. It can overcome this problem with gearing but that only makes me look like I'm trying to race everyone. Did I mention that it is hard to drive this car at low speed without attracting too much attention? Smile started fading from my face. The last 10 miles of stop and go traffic back to the shop were wearing me out.
Aftermath: Gas mileage was a dismal 12.2MPG for the 94 miles (only about 1.5 less than what I'm used to for that kind of driving). My kidneys are sore from the pounding of the suspension. My face hurts from the ear to ear grin I had while driving it. I was very pleased with the handling but not the lack of compliance. 4000+ lbs is a lot of heft to toss around and the M5 does not disappoint here. Where I was disapointed was that the ride was not more supple on the highway. A tradeoff for sure. The engine is a work of functional art but 8000RPM shifts are kind of strange in a luxury sedan. Power delivery was very (air cooled) Porsche Turbo like. Slow to build until about 4500RPM and then hang on but you better be prepared to shift RIGHT NOW! Also very Porsche like is the fact that this car likes, no needs to be revved high while cruising. Steering is very precise but a little heavier than I like. Brakes are perfect.
Interior: Way too complicated for me. Maybe it takes some getting used to but iDrive stinks. With no instruction manual in the car, I could not figure out Lauch Control. I gave up after 10 minutes since I would only have the car a few hours and commute traffic on the highway was getting worse. Controls are comfortable but in the wrong places. Again, I'll get used to it. Too much plastic for my taste. Seats are harder than I'd like. The interior fit and finish is on par with my $50K Touareg not a $100K BMW. Very disappointing.
Exterior: I hope it grows on me. Wheels are as fugly as the rest of the car. Maybe a new set will soften the ugliness or maybe it will just look like I put a prom dress on a pig.
PLUS:This is as close to racecar as it gets while still hauling 5 people and gear. MINUS:This is as close to racecar as it gets while still hauling 5 people and gear.
Well, it has been 4 hours since I gave the car back and I have mixed emotions. The car performs like one that is half its size and weight. The engine puts out a wail that is only matched by the start of an F1 race. Very few cars will be able to touch it on the open road and not cost 2x as much and draw a ton of attention to them themselves. However, I drive in town and in traffic a lot. This car sucks in both places. I traded my 996 TT X50 because I hated driving it in town and traffic. The M5 would probably be the same way.
And it is so damn ugly! I have a solid offer of $7500 over sticker (my price)right now for my car when it comes in next month. As it stands today, I am more inclined to take the cash and wait for the E63 than to buy another car that I'll rarely drive. Maybe I need to ask for another drive....
11-17-2005, 02:42 AM
#96
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Originally Posted by Improviz
...if you think there's a single person on here who doesn't see what you're here for after reading that little chronology, you're even dumber than I thought--and that says a lot.
Hmm....what's the definition of dumb? Tell me about it......
11-17-2005, 08:25 AM
#99
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by skratch77
its kinda like the s2000 of sedans lol.Maybe you should look into chaging out the rear end if you want more low end snap and dont feel like revving it all day to get the most out of it.
im sure there will be 411 rear ends out there soon after the tuners start messing with better gearing.
im sure there will be 411 rear ends out there soon after the tuners start messing with better gearing.
Can you imagine.
11-17-2005, 10:19 AM
#100
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CLS55 AMG
Originally Posted by MikeHK
Hmm....what's the definition of dumb? Tell me about it......
Which is, I believe, why you and many other BMW trolls dislike me personally: because I am effective at it.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled plugs for BMW and trolling.
