*** $1,500 CF Airbox with HP benefits ***
#351
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2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
Just keep pressing ahead V. Remember how Karl Benz was hammered for trying to make anything that would compete with the mighty four legged wonder.
Just keep pressing ahead and post up how you are making out on the new CF box. I am all for losing 200$ and more on R&D. Just lemme know when you need a new advance for more research. I have my hand on the Paypal button right now. We all do!!!
Jim
Just keep pressing ahead and post up how you are making out on the new CF box. I am all for losing 200$ and more on R&D. Just lemme know when you need a new advance for more research. I have my hand on the Paypal button right now. We all do!!!
Jim
#352
Originally Posted by vrus
Hey Dan,
The CF guys have the new stock airbox assembly and are taking the measurements and studying the mounting points.
What I am looking to do is to extend the length of each box as far forward as we can. Since we are doing away with the front engine cover anyways, we can take advantage of the extra space.
I am aiming to get a 10% - 15% increase in surface area of the filter.
Stock filters are 35.5cm x 13.4cm.. That means we would need to increase the length by 5.325cm and the width by 2.01cm to get a 15% increase (or any combination of those numbers according to what filters are available).
That should be easily doable judging by the space that is in there. Once I meet with them and go over their findings, we can toss some ideas back and forth... I am working on the design of the top box and output pipe..
I am leaning towards a tube runner design which will stop mid way to the TB on each side. Then, the center Y-piece will be another CF piece with 2 rubber pieces connecting it to the outlet pipes of the airboxes.
I like the idea of having a separate Y-piece in case the TB or something else needs to change, it wont affect the entire airbox assembly.
I'll have more details once I speak with them.. Should be meeting today or tomorrow if they are ready for me.
The CF guys have the new stock airbox assembly and are taking the measurements and studying the mounting points.
What I am looking to do is to extend the length of each box as far forward as we can. Since we are doing away with the front engine cover anyways, we can take advantage of the extra space.
I am aiming to get a 10% - 15% increase in surface area of the filter.
Stock filters are 35.5cm x 13.4cm.. That means we would need to increase the length by 5.325cm and the width by 2.01cm to get a 15% increase (or any combination of those numbers according to what filters are available).
That should be easily doable judging by the space that is in there. Once I meet with them and go over their findings, we can toss some ideas back and forth... I am working on the design of the top box and output pipe..
I am leaning towards a tube runner design which will stop mid way to the TB on each side. Then, the center Y-piece will be another CF piece with 2 rubber pieces connecting it to the outlet pipes of the airboxes.
I like the idea of having a separate Y-piece in case the TB or something else needs to change, it wont affect the entire airbox assembly.
I'll have more details once I speak with them.. Should be meeting today or tomorrow if they are ready for me.
#353
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2003 E55 AMG
Hey Jim,
Thanks.. I know we are all together and you guys have my back... I appreciate it.
Hey Dan,
For now, the idea is to keep them in the stock location. I dont want to try to do too much all at once.. If there is time during the project to do some of this type of testing, I am for it, but I dont want to delay anything by experimenting with too many things at once.
One point I had written down to discuss with them was the possibility of redoing the complete assembly (the part that is installed inside the grill that the tubes attach to) and create a smooth air funnel. This way we could enlarge the opening on the driver's side.. The driver's side is where the small pipe is that everyone tries to replace but then doesnt fit properly because it cant attach itself.
If we do those pieces in CF also, then they will be exposed through the grille and will give a nice appearance, and also may provide better flow because of the enlarged openings.
I have to figure out what impact all these ideas have on cost because the last thing I want to do is drive the price up very high.. I guess once I get pricing on everything I have ideas for, I'll post it and everyone can have a chance to provide their input.
Welcome to our 2 newest members: Jangy & efivefive
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2MANYCARS ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Apple '55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
bfnnrgn ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
catalystkid ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
DocStone .......................
dsc ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
e55 baller ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
e55 killer ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
efivefive ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
ENDSMTG ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Fleebee ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Griffin337 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
GTA23109a .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Jakpro1 .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Jangy ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
JAY55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
jparch ....................... $200.00 RECEIVED (CASH)
KEE55AMG .......................
Kens-E55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Kev04C320 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Loren ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
M5KILLR ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
MACHC5 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Mad TKD ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
mstenberg ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
oblax4 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
rboorgu .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Rock ....................... $200.00 RECEIVED (WIRED)
stevebez ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
vader ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
W211E55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Thanks.. I know we are all together and you guys have my back... I appreciate it.
Originally Posted by Jakpro1
Just keep pressing ahead V. Remember how Karl Benz was hammered for trying to make anything that would compete with the mighty four legged wonder.
Just keep pressing ahead and post up how you are making out on the new CF box. I am all for losing 200$ and more on R&D. Just lemme know when you need a new advance for more research. I have my hand on the Paypal button right now. We all do!!!
Jim
Just keep pressing ahead and post up how you are making out on the new CF box. I am all for losing 200$ and more on R&D. Just lemme know when you need a new advance for more research. I have my hand on the Paypal button right now. We all do!!!
Jim
For now, the idea is to keep them in the stock location. I dont want to try to do too much all at once.. If there is time during the project to do some of this type of testing, I am for it, but I dont want to delay anything by experimenting with too many things at once.
One point I had written down to discuss with them was the possibility of redoing the complete assembly (the part that is installed inside the grill that the tubes attach to) and create a smooth air funnel. This way we could enlarge the opening on the driver's side.. The driver's side is where the small pipe is that everyone tries to replace but then doesnt fit properly because it cant attach itself.
If we do those pieces in CF also, then they will be exposed through the grille and will give a nice appearance, and also may provide better flow because of the enlarged openings.
I have to figure out what impact all these ideas have on cost because the last thing I want to do is drive the price up very high.. I guess once I get pricing on everything I have ideas for, I'll post it and everyone can have a chance to provide their input.
Originally Posted by dsc
Thanks Victor. Are we staying with the stock location for intake? I know people had discussed alternate cool air intake locations. Do you feel the stock horns will allow enough flow at all speeds? There has been a lot of controversy about the "rain flap" in front of the intake horns, should we remove them in this application?
Payment Status
-------------------
Total Participants: 31
Total Paid: 29
2MANYCARS ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Apple '55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
bfnnrgn ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
catalystkid ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
DocStone .......................
dsc ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
e55 baller ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
e55 killer ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
efivefive ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
ENDSMTG ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Fleebee ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Griffin337 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
GTA23109a .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Jakpro1 .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Jangy ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
JAY55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
jparch ....................... $200.00 RECEIVED (CASH)
KEE55AMG .......................
Kens-E55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Kev04C320 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Loren ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
M5KILLR ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
MACHC5 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
Mad TKD ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
mstenberg ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
oblax4 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
rboorgu .......................$206.00 RECEIVED
Rock ....................... $200.00 RECEIVED (WIRED)
stevebez ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
vader ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
W211E55 ....................... $206.00 RECEIVED
#354
Originally Posted by vrus
I am aiming to get a 10% - 15% increase in surface area of the filter.
Stock filters are 35.5cm x 13.4cm.. That means we would need to increase the length by 5.325cm and the width by 2.01cm to get a 15% increase (or any combination of those numbers according to what filters are available).
Stock filters are 35.5cm x 13.4cm.. That means we would need to increase the length by 5.325cm and the width by 2.01cm to get a 15% increase (or any combination of those numbers according to what filters are available).
#355
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2003 E55 AMG
Hahahah.. Ooops.. Thanks for the correction! I should of gone 7.5% in each direction...
Originally Posted by Grumpy666
Uhhhh - you must have a lot on your mind - increasing the linear dimensions of the filter by 15% will actually result in about a 32% area increase.
#356
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by psk145
not sure id agree with that. Jut because its Renntech doesnt mean its gospel
#357
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2015 S212
Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
true, normally i would say "trust but verify," however this is an airbox we are talking about, not nuclear proliferation.
#358
Super Moderator
Hey Victor...how do we get you the money? Do you have an addy I could send a money order or something? I wanted in on this and never knew how to get you the money...pm me or something and I'll be more then happy to pitch in on this...
#359
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by vrus
Do you always go around spewing your mouth off to people you don't know??
Originally Posted by vrus
You just never know who you are talking to on the other end now do you?
Originally Posted by vrus
Hahahah.. Really.. You just accept it as fact that something can be improved?? That's interesting.. I guess your mind doesnt quite work like mine now does it. I am from a different mindset where I like to see things verified rather than just accepting something as truth.
Originally Posted by vrus
If Renntech says it makes power, then it should?? Really.. That's another very intelligent and interesting statement... I won't even bother replying to this one.
Originally Posted by vrus
I want to discredit Renntech? I have an alternate agenda? Really? Maybe I just like to call a Spade a Spade??? I have PURCHASED AND OWN RENNTECH Products... I have their DLM on my car. I call it like I see it... But again, you dont know me, so you should think twice before spitting out some of this stuff..
Originally Posted by vrus
Once and for all, the best way (read that as most cost effective) to determine if something can be improved is to purchase the best product on the market and test it. If it lives up to its claims, then there is hope for what you are trying to do.. If it doesnt, maybe there is no hope? I've already said all this, but you are making me retype this stuff over and over.
and bla bla bla.
#360
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by Rock
First, can you believe a member would spend his own valuable time and money trying to develop performance products and offering them to other board members at half the cost of the overpriced tuners.
i do find it slightly humorous that you ppl are just too cheap to pay for renntech. lest you forget that Hartmut DID work for AMG and he WAS part of the design team of the hammer cars. so if you think it is too darn expensive to employ the talents of the only independent AMG engineer in the USA in favor of half baked products that only offer economy over quality, then by all means.
and with that thought, i bid this thread adieux. much to ya'alls delight!
#361
Administrator
Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
i do find it slightly humorous that you ppl are just too cheap to pay for renntech.
1979 450SEL DB172, miles unknown
#363
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2015 S212
Delighted!!
Nice try. Please feel free to troll this way again very soon.
We've known the boxes have been on "backorder". That is no huge find, but thanks for the info about Friday's weather forecast on Sunday.
By the way, do you watch football? You'd be great on the Monday Night Quarterback show. Let me knoe if you are interested to aplly for the position. We'd hate for all this lip to go to waste.
Nice try. Please feel free to troll this way again very soon.
We've known the boxes have been on "backorder". That is no huge find, but thanks for the info about Friday's weather forecast on Sunday.
By the way, do you watch football? You'd be great on the Monday Night Quarterback show. Let me knoe if you are interested to aplly for the position. We'd hate for all this lip to go to waste.
#364
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2003 E55 AMG
What? You mean you didnt read the beginning of the thread???
Just busting your chops... I need to post some info for the group this afternoon so hold off until I post because "we gots some decisions to make"...
Just busting your chops... I need to post some info for the group this afternoon so hold off until I post because "we gots some decisions to make"...
Originally Posted by BenzoBoi
Hey Victor...how do we get you the money? Do you have an addy I could send a money order or something? I wanted in on this and never knew how to get you the money...pm me or something and I'll be more then happy to pitch in on this...
#365
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2018 E63S wagon, 2016 GLE350d, GLE450 on order
i'm sure most people on here are willing to pay top dollar for performance items that DO indeed work. what is your problem with taking a product and verfiying its advertised claims?? does it really make power or is it just a cosmetic piece? that's all, no more, no less.
Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
you know what, you are right.
i do find it slightly humorous that you ppl are just too cheap to pay for renntech. lest you forget that Hartmut DID work for AMG and he WAS part of the design team of the hammer cars. so if you think it is too darn expensive to employ the talents of the only independent AMG engineer in the USA in favor of half baked products that only offer economy over quality, then by all means.
and with that thought, i bid this thread adieux. much to ya'alls delight!
i do find it slightly humorous that you ppl are just too cheap to pay for renntech. lest you forget that Hartmut DID work for AMG and he WAS part of the design team of the hammer cars. so if you think it is too darn expensive to employ the talents of the only independent AMG engineer in the USA in favor of half baked products that only offer economy over quality, then by all means.
and with that thought, i bid this thread adieux. much to ya'alls delight!
#366
Out Of Control!
Originally Posted by Rock
HAHA that's funny. I was thinking the same thing when I saw this in your sig.:1990 300SEL DB199, 297k miles
1979 450SEL DB172, miles unknown
1979 450SEL DB172, miles unknown
#367
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12' C63 P31, 06' Supercharged Range, 08' BMW 550i
Originally Posted by JamE55
LOL
#368
Guys lets keep this thread on the topic of the box itself and how it needs to be built. Arguing the merits of buying RENNtech products and testing them serves to no purpose and doesn't help contribute to further development of vrus' project which not only I am glad he is undertaking on his own time (the most valuable asset) but quite a few others are also very glad.
The poster of the next message I read or that is brought to my attention in this thread which isn't constructive will face a one week ban.
The poster of the next message I read or that is brought to my attention in this thread which isn't constructive will face a one week ban.
#369
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Originally Posted by dragonAMG
Remember all the BS Mr. SEL was talking on my Kleemann C55K S7? He's a troll that should be banned from this forum.
#370
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2003 E55 AMG
Spoke with the CF guys at length... We have some serious decisions to make here...
I want to make sure before I take this 1 step further that we are all on the same page and we have a clear understanding of the expectations and the output.
There was a little bit of a misunderstanding between him and I when we spoke.. When he talked to me about the mold, I assumed he was going to mold the whole airbox assembly (top & bottom boxes on both sides) for the $2500 (that's what it sounded like to me in the meeting).. It turns out that each PIECE that we mold will cost $2500. He had it in his head that we were going to leave the bottom boxes alone and just make a bigger top piece (like the Renntech guys did) which flowed more air and was made of Pure CF.
I guess this is why Renntech did what they did.. Making 5 molds to do an engine cover is a bit costly..
The difference will be for us is that the whole top piece would be all CF and not utilize the stock upper airbox as a starting point..
He said if we try and do what the GruppeM guys did which is make a top & bottom piece the price of the airbox will be alot more and it will take months for them to do the CAD drawings, and prep work, and tooling, etc, etc..... To be honest, I dont want this to turn into a 6 - 8month project. For $1500 we just cant do both top & bottom pieces.
What they did was take my new stock airbox assembly that I gave them and hack it up to figure out how to get the best airflow out of the top section. They've designed airboxes for alot of other cars in the past so they have experience doing this.. He said that the filter size is big enough as it is as long as we can get the improved airflow on the top side, and Renntech has already proven that concept will work.
He wants to work with me/us and is willing to do whatever is necessary to come out with a top notch product, that is pure CF, makes more power than stock, and is half the cost of what is out there right now.
Now, we have 29 guys that are in so far.. That means that each guy is responsible for roughly $87 for each piece we need to mold. So, when deciding which direction we should go in, keep that figure in mind.
If we do the airboxes as separate pieces we would need to create 5 molds = $12,500 ($435 per person).
Then, ontop of that, if we do the air tubes and front engine cover that's another 2 molds = $5,000. It adds up pretty quick.
Personally, I think it is better if we just do the top half (assuming he can come up with a good design using the stock assemblies I gave him) and we also get him to do the air tubes & front engine cover... We dont have to do all of them at once, but, I think we should do the air tubes & the airbox together to make it a complete kit.
He will create something from the stock parts I gave him and then he/we will do the airflow testing on it.. If it is a feasible prototype, we move to the next step and make the mold. This puts our at-risk money to a minimum.
Now, I need you guys to vote so we can see what we should do:
1) Do top part only and see if we can get a good design that will make power.
2) Push ahead and try and do what GruppeM did. If we decide this I will try to get more accurate pricing on CAD work, tooling work, etc..
3) Abort now and give everyone back their monies.
BTW.. I wasnt going to post about this anymore, but, I thought I would put the final update on the situation.. My friend called me this morning and said they still have no firm delivery date for the Renntech box.. They were still on backorder and they have no ETA so he can't give me one. He said his boss told him to refund me the money they took for the Renntech airbox.. He was going to deal with Renntech to see if he could get it cancelled, or he would just wait until it arrived and put it into his inventory.
The credit was going to be put through my credit card today so the credit should show up by tomorrow or Friday. We are off the hook with the Renntech box!!!! AMEN.
That means, right now, we are only out $572USD for the stock airbox assembly, air tubes, Y-pipe and clamps if we decide to abort at this point. That works out to $20 each.
My inclination is to try and do the research and see if we can come up with something that is a top portion only.. At this point we've already spent the money on the stock airbox assemblies, so we should take that as far as we can until there is a need for more money. Worse comes to worse and he can't provide a solution, we can abort at that point.
What say you guys??
I want to make sure before I take this 1 step further that we are all on the same page and we have a clear understanding of the expectations and the output.
There was a little bit of a misunderstanding between him and I when we spoke.. When he talked to me about the mold, I assumed he was going to mold the whole airbox assembly (top & bottom boxes on both sides) for the $2500 (that's what it sounded like to me in the meeting).. It turns out that each PIECE that we mold will cost $2500. He had it in his head that we were going to leave the bottom boxes alone and just make a bigger top piece (like the Renntech guys did) which flowed more air and was made of Pure CF.
I guess this is why Renntech did what they did.. Making 5 molds to do an engine cover is a bit costly..
The difference will be for us is that the whole top piece would be all CF and not utilize the stock upper airbox as a starting point..
He said if we try and do what the GruppeM guys did which is make a top & bottom piece the price of the airbox will be alot more and it will take months for them to do the CAD drawings, and prep work, and tooling, etc, etc..... To be honest, I dont want this to turn into a 6 - 8month project. For $1500 we just cant do both top & bottom pieces.
What they did was take my new stock airbox assembly that I gave them and hack it up to figure out how to get the best airflow out of the top section. They've designed airboxes for alot of other cars in the past so they have experience doing this.. He said that the filter size is big enough as it is as long as we can get the improved airflow on the top side, and Renntech has already proven that concept will work.
He wants to work with me/us and is willing to do whatever is necessary to come out with a top notch product, that is pure CF, makes more power than stock, and is half the cost of what is out there right now.
Now, we have 29 guys that are in so far.. That means that each guy is responsible for roughly $87 for each piece we need to mold. So, when deciding which direction we should go in, keep that figure in mind.
If we do the airboxes as separate pieces we would need to create 5 molds = $12,500 ($435 per person).
Then, ontop of that, if we do the air tubes and front engine cover that's another 2 molds = $5,000. It adds up pretty quick.
Personally, I think it is better if we just do the top half (assuming he can come up with a good design using the stock assemblies I gave him) and we also get him to do the air tubes & front engine cover... We dont have to do all of them at once, but, I think we should do the air tubes & the airbox together to make it a complete kit.
He will create something from the stock parts I gave him and then he/we will do the airflow testing on it.. If it is a feasible prototype, we move to the next step and make the mold. This puts our at-risk money to a minimum.
Now, I need you guys to vote so we can see what we should do:
1) Do top part only and see if we can get a good design that will make power.
2) Push ahead and try and do what GruppeM did. If we decide this I will try to get more accurate pricing on CAD work, tooling work, etc..
3) Abort now and give everyone back their monies.
BTW.. I wasnt going to post about this anymore, but, I thought I would put the final update on the situation.. My friend called me this morning and said they still have no firm delivery date for the Renntech box.. They were still on backorder and they have no ETA so he can't give me one. He said his boss told him to refund me the money they took for the Renntech airbox.. He was going to deal with Renntech to see if he could get it cancelled, or he would just wait until it arrived and put it into his inventory.
The credit was going to be put through my credit card today so the credit should show up by tomorrow or Friday. We are off the hook with the Renntech box!!!! AMEN.
That means, right now, we are only out $572USD for the stock airbox assembly, air tubes, Y-pipe and clamps if we decide to abort at this point. That works out to $20 each.
My inclination is to try and do the research and see if we can come up with something that is a top portion only.. At this point we've already spent the money on the stock airbox assemblies, so we should take that as far as we can until there is a need for more money. Worse comes to worse and he can't provide a solution, we can abort at that point.
What say you guys??
#371
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by ricky.agrawal
Guys lets keep this thread on the topic of the box itself and how it needs to be built. Arguing the merits of buying RENNtech products and testing them serves to no purpose and doesn't help contribute to further development of vrus' project which not only I am glad he is undertaking on his own time (the most valuable asset) but quite a few others are also very glad.
The poster of the next message I read or that is brought to my attention in this thread which isn't constructive will face a one week ban.
The poster of the next message I read or that is brought to my attention in this thread which isn't constructive will face a one week ban.
To often people try to get us off of our game by whatever means, but we can't let them. Besides Renntech, Kleeman and any other aftermarket company you name started out the same way this did - an idea born of determination, imagination, and the quest for something better.
Ever Forward...
-Ghost
#372
Senior Member
My vote, as always, is to go with what will make the most power. If we're going to be leaving power on the table by just doing the upper box and leaving the lower and tubes stock, then it's not worth it to me. I'd like to see a total solution. That being said, I'm in either way for the R&D portion regardless of what the majority decides.
#373
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06' E55
My vote is definetly the top and the intake tubes. If there is worth while power to be had from the bottom I am in for that too. Personally I also want the front piece just to finish off the look.
#374
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04 E55
Originally Posted by catalystkid
My vote is definetly the top and the intake tubes. If there is worth while power to be had from the bottom I am in for that too. Personally I also want the front piece just to finish off the look.