Mad TKD

few points here.

1. Manufacters of all types buy competitors products all the time. Case in point is lexus when it bought MBs for research into making the LS. They still do it and so does every other car maker. You can bet that Renntech, Kleeman and others have tested, taken apart or viewed in detail each others products.

2. Vrus never said we were going to make an exact copy of the Air box. I and most people said they want something that would give more power if possible so the design will have to be different of course.

3. Maybe Renntech does not want to supply it because a: they dont have it b: They dont want someone else to let the cat out the bag about how it really is nothing special or c: They dont want anyone to make a unbaised test or review of it?

4. schwarzwagen: I have to disagree with your comments. Yes we have 90k cars SO FREAKIN what. Most of us have had other modded cars and cant see any reason to charge the money most charge for the mods. 15k on a exhaust? Do you really think that is reasonable when it is just steel welded or bent a certain way? Most dont even have reliable dynos or anything to prove the power gains. Its believe me it gives power attitude and most products by both Renntech or Kleeman have fallen short on the power output.

Vrus is doing a great thing here and passing it on to the MB community. He isnt even making a profit which he could very easy!!!!!!

MACHC5

AMEN......!

vraa

Well....

vrus

It's a tough spot to be in for me.. The distributor saw this thread and said he was going to call Renntech and talk to the bosses over there and see what can be done. I told him that my preference was to cancel the order and refund the money. This way, whatever work I do on the CF airbox, no one has any reasons to point fingers at me saying that I stold ideas, etc,etc..

If they decide not to do that because production is already underway, then I want a firm delivery date.

I will post the information that comes back to make it public record.

That's really what this is all about.. I just want to validate the claims of hp.

I have no problems with using factory OEM parts where feasible.. But, in this case purchasing a complete factory airbox assembly just so you dont have to make your own top mounting plate is crazy. And, sending all of that stuff with their kit gives the customer the impression that everything was custom made. When, in reality only the top piece was custom and everything else was factory.

I mean.. They already did the R&D to make the mold for the Y-piece, why didnt they just mold the stock top airbox cover and make a FULL CF Piece out of that too?? Believe me, it would have been cheaper than buying a new airbox assembly (Which I just did so that I could give it to the CF guys to measure).

That would save them having to ship all of that stock equipment to the customer and having the customer do a re/re of something they already had installed in the car... LOL..

catalystkid

Vrus,

I am not so sure that they are intentionally messing with you. I checked around and these CF boxes are on back order so it may just be poor customer sevice in providing information as to status.

schwarzwagen

first serious comment, before virus should go around whining like a little girl, call renntech directly instead of acting through his third party "friend" distributor guy and ask them politely as to the status of his order.

i can all but guarantee you that renntech is aware of this thread and virus spouting off at the mouth does not do his cause any good... think about it. Think about this from renntech’s position.

Again, if this guy is actually building this box from scratch as he says he is, why bother with buying a renntech box? Take a stock box, measure it out, and go from there. You have no need to buy a renntech box unless you plan to copy some aspect of it.

MACHC5

Schwarzwagen,

Not that there is anything wrong with your post...but.

1st Do you have a E55K car..?

2nd Are you planning on buying what VRUS is making.?

3rd I wouldn't talk about someone else WHINING.

4th Reread the thread... your ??'s have been answered.

Best Regards and may the Schwarz be with you,
MachC5

schwarzwagen

yes, i read the entire thread. you say that the only reason you wanted the renntech box was to see if an alternative system to stock actually makes power. that possibly the stock box is the best and there is no room for improvement. i find that to be a pretty amazing statement. you and i both know that any stock airbox can be improved and if renntech says their box makes more power, that should be proof enough for you. renntech does *NOT* make baseless claims; you don't have to buy their box just to check first. that is just a pretext for you agenda. whether your agenda is to copy the renntech box or try to discredit them with some dyno plot, is something i will never know. attempting to discredit them based on their use of stock filters and lower housing, etc. only proves my point. they are not claiming the world with their CF box, 10-20 crank hp is not sensational.

from scratch means a blank piece of paper, you don't need a renntech box sitting there to start from scratch... how convenient that is, isn't it???

schwarzwagen

you know the answers to your questions.

my agenda here is just to call out this guy and that is not whining.

no need to reread the thread, the only dissenting voice was ignored in page 6. the rest are all on board. why reread 7 pages of "you go girl" attitudes.

psk145

not sure id agree with that. Jut because its Renntech doesnt mean its gospel

Mad TKD

The only reason someone would say what schwarzwagen is saying is if he works for Renntech.

oblax4

Hey Schwarz, get lost!

"Quidus recte....." - your above input is neither rightly done, nor humble, nor noble!

CynCarvin32

Ya all renntech people drive around in 1990 300SEL's.... nice tuner car....

So lets see for one second. No one wants to believe RENNtech's power claims. Ok I disagree with the doubt but lets go another route.

Everyone here loves EvoSport and has raised them to the level of on-line gods. So Vadims a good guy and hes done some nice work on the 55k engine and he says the factory box is not ideal and that he sees a 20+ increase in wrhp with NO box at all (something along those lines). So that means that the car indeed could use a better box.

If all people want to do is confirm that the car needs a new better intake system that should be proof positive.

So RENNtech claims a 20 hp or so increase in crank hp and Vadims research shows a 20 wrhp potential increase.

Where do I go wrong in saying that with those FACTS you do NOT need a RENNtech box in the first place.

And for the recond Grumpy is involved in MANY threads about tuning the 55k motor and he does not have a 55k. So under that same idea I think non 55k owners have a right to chime in on a given topic.

All this talk about using a OEM bottom portion of the intake is kind of funny also. So the bottom is the same. Why re-invent the wheel when you can make it better. If the restriction in the factory system is not located in the lower section of the air box why should RENNtech waste time designing it to be different. They went and found where they felt the restriction was located and went about revising the system to yield some postive gains.

The fact that the bottom section of the RENNtech box is OEM means it will bolt on to all cars with no issues. I can think of 3 tuner intakes that do not fit the car for one reason or another. Some hit the hood, some just do not bolt down, others require you cut sections of support out of the hood.... I think I like RENNtech's idea. Take what the car has and make it better. Just like taking a factory throttle body and boring it out to be larger instead of buiding a new one from scratch.

Im not starting a battle here so dont go off yelling and telling me to pound sand.

2MANYCARS

Seems like I've missed out a lot for not following this thread everyday. lolz I was going to get RENNTech parts before I've even had my car delivered to me. All the parts on their website look promising, but after reading these 7 pages breifly, I'm glad I didn't order any of their parts.

ChicagoX

"you have 90k cars, with 20k in mods, bur you want to stick it to RENNtech..."

Spaketh Schwartzwagen....

So, by your reasoning, I should throw my money away on an untested product?

I appreciate the R&D, personally.

EDIT: the remainder of this post was self-edited for OT content.

vrus

Do you always go around spewing your mouth off to people you don't know??

You just never know who you are talking to on the other end now do you?

For your information I DID PURCHASE A STOCK AIRBOX and I did drop it off to the guys to measure up and to work from.

I've already said why I wanted the Renntech box... Do I really have to repost again the answer to your silly questions?

Hahahah.. Really.. You just accept it as fact that something can be improved?? That's interesting.. I guess your mind doesnt quite work like mine now does it. I am from a different mindset where I like to see things verified rather than just accepting something as truth.

If Renntech says it makes power, then it should?? Really.. That's another very intelligent and interesting statement... I won't even bother replying to this one.

I want to discredit Renntech? I have an alternate agenda? Really? Maybe I just like to call a Spade a Spade??? I have PURCHASED AND OWN RENNTECH Products... I have their DLM on my car. I call it like I see it... But again, you dont know me, so you should think twice before spitting out some of this stuff..

Once and for all, the best way (read that as most cost effective) to determine if something can be improved is to purchase the best product on the market and test it. If it lives up to its claims, then there is hope for what you are trying to do.. If it doesnt, maybe there is no hope? I've already said all this, but you are making me retype this stuff over and over.

If you dont get it by now you never will.. So let's just leave it at that.

Call me out where? Where do you want to call me out to? You think I have something to hide or to prove to you? I dont. Like I said above, if you dont get it, you just don't get it.. Move on.

I am done with your posts.

You and I have talked in the past.. I think you have an idea of the type of character I have and the type of person I am. If any of my past posts are an indication, you know I dont make up bull****, and I always try to come down to the truths.

You know what bothered me about this whole Renntech thing is 2 things:

1) Most of their parts are stock MB parts which they didnt have to send to a customer if the customer already has them installed in the car? What is the point of sending a set of stock airboxes to a customer if the customer already has them installed in the car?

Would it have really been difficult for Renntech to copy the stock top airbox and make their own mounting piece? This would have saved them using a complete stock airbox assembly? Am I wrong about this?

If we disagree in our opinions, that's ok.. But, that is just how I feel. And it is just my opinion.

2) The lack of answers back on delivery date. The distributor called 3 or 4 times.. Talked to George at least twice.. Was told he will call back and never got a call back. They have the money on deposit and dont say when it will be manufactured or delivered. How would you feel if it was your $3,800USD??

CynCarvin32

This is the exact thing. Why would you not want to order the parts?

Has anyone proven them to be low quality or lack in performance.

So lets say they are sold out and on back order. Low volume parts take time to be made and shipped. It is not like these things are made by the boat full.

So how about people wait to see if the box does what it says before going off and saying they are a terrible company.

Maybe if there were not unreasonable expectations there would be no issue. They said it was on back order but people do not like back order. Maybe their practice of taking the money before having shipped the part is questionable to the public but if they have the money rest assured a company like RENNtech, Evo, or Kleemann would deliver the part.

The thing here is people get a ball rolling and soon enough there is a bucket of hate going torwards a company that has a part on back order. How many do you think they sell a year? I bet not to many.

Jangy very logically stated that these boxes likely get send to customers buying a full stage 5 kit and not to a guy who is just ordering the box. Its really logical when people slow down and do a tad bit of reading.

vrus

Guys,

Let's just leave this Renntech thing alone.. Let's concentrate on making our own box...

We know what we know... let's leave it at that.

Can Drive 55

I will second that. Drive on V.

catalystkid

Vrus,

Most of us know, understand, and appreciate what you are trying to do here. Instead of endlessly rehashing your points that some people seem to be unable to comprehend I suggest you concentrate your energy on all of the projects your are trying to bring to your fellow board members. I would like to thank you for spending so much of your time on projects that benefit us all.

CynCarvin32

Yes you and I have talked in the past and I never said you were a liar any time. But I do not think this thread has been very pro RENNtech at all even from the get go. When you ordered your parts for the pulleys and cooling system did you post saying that you wanted to get them and see if they even did what they claimed? Did you in essence put EVO on the spot and make them fear sending you a part under the totally random chance your car might not work 100% correctly or respond as they have expected? You your self said that after your car had the air pump ECU re-flah it did not feel as powerful. Maybe its not working 100% perfectly and that could cause an issue for the box. Who knows?? Did you say that you wanted to take their parts and use it as a springboard to design and produce your own version?

With all that said Vrus do you see why RENNtech might not like this thread? Would Kleemann want to sell u a pulley if you had 20 people waiting for you to see their part, use it as a basis for your own design, and under cut their price?

If the guys off in Florida say its in production and that it will show when they can get it to you then lets just sit back and wait. It’s like getting your new Enzo... low volume things take time to show up.

Ok yes RENNtech could give you a specific date but maybe they don’t know when that will be or maybe people have been vague because they don’t want to get pinned to a date only to have the part be late.

Maybe some companies do look the competition during the R&D phase to see what people are doing but RENNtech looked to no one other than their own info. Maybe they deserve the same respect you give to the other people with whom you have done business regarding your car. If you get the part and it is not what you like you can post what you don’t like but until then try to remain a bit more impartial in this all.

Now as for the box being based off the factory box on the bottom, I can’t comment on specifics but clearly they did not need to change anything there to get the power. For the sake of an example lets say you have a car with a great exhaust but a terrible set of cats. When trying to increase power you upgrade the cats and there you have it a newly revised system for more power. Just because you did the cats should you replace everything else even if it does nothing beneficial at all?

Sometimes getting more complicated in design only leads to more trouble than it is worth. With cars like this it is all to easy to lose power let alone gain power when you switch things around. If the box makes the power RENNtech claims and its well built why should they not use the factory lower sections? The top of the box is 100% different, the rear section is 100% different, where the box attaches to the throttle body is 100% different.

Comments like most their parts are factory based parts are just false. The intercooler kit for a 55k car with top mount SLR stye coolers, upgraded front exchanger, larger unique pump (non marine pump -- actually road racing rally pump) is just a factory kit? Their 7.4L M120 V12 engine is just a factory design? Their custom interior work and wide body kits are factory work? Yes they uses an existing factory pulley as the base for an upgraded pulley but that is only because they did not want to mess with the factory harmonic balancer. I like that idea! Again why mess with a working, safe, factory-tested part?

Lets keep this civil as im not trying to be a pain just responding to the comments you and some of the other posters have made.

Rock

Schwarzwagenwagenwagen:

Thank you for "calling out this guy" and opening the eyes of the sheep herd. I am also disgusted by what I am seeing.

First, can you believe a member would spend his own valuable time and money trying to develop performance products and offering them to other board members at half the cost of the overpriced tuners.

Second, did I see your name on the participation list? Do you have a vested interest in this project? What exactly are you trying to "call out?" Did Victor deceive us in some way?....................................... are you here to show us the light?

Unfortunately, you sound like a troll and have offered no real substantive information. Please bug-off..........we'll call you if we need you.

vrus

But, everything I buy, I in effect purchase to see if they do what they claim... I dyno test every single part and make sure it works.. Believe me, if something that Evo sold me (or anyone else) didnt work as advertised I would be talking to them and I would post good or bad comments.. I dont pull punches.... If the treatment back to me was negative, I would post it.. If the treatment was positive, I would post that too.

The company in question could just of easily been GruppeM instead of Renntech, but I chose Renntech because I thought they had the better product... Doesn't that say something?

BTW.. In my preliminary dealings with Evo I did state my dislike to the way I was treated (do a search for phenolic spacers and see what I posted).. I purchased a product which was promised in 3 weeks and 1.5 months went by and I didnt receive it.. You know what happend? One of the owners (Brad) called me and said he would make it up to me and apologized for getting off on the wrong foot.. We both spoke and agreed to let bygones be bygones... I've been dealing with them ever since.

I try to stay as impartial as I can.. Like I said, Renntech makes some great products (their TB kit is great and so is their DLM).. I purchased their DLM and was also going to purchase one of their Crankshaft pullies to test out on my car. The only product I have a problem with is their airbox... No big deal. That's just me...

Let's just leave this one alone and let it get back on topic...

Everyone has said their piece and we all know where everyone stands.

dsc

This makes the most sense. What is our goal here?
Victor, what is the next step in making the air boxes now without Renntech's box? It's been a while in the conversation that the actual box improvements have been discussed.

vrus

Hey Dan,

The CF guys have the new stock airbox assembly and are taking the measurements and studying the mounting points.

What I am looking to do is to extend the length of each box as far forward as we can. Since we are doing away with the front engine cover anyways, we can take advantage of the extra space.

I am aiming to get a 10% - 15% increase in surface area of the filter.

Stock filters are 35.5cm x 13.4cm.. That means we would need to increase the length by 5.325cm and the width by 2.01cm to get a 15% increase (or any combination of those numbers according to what filters are available).

That should be easily doable judging by the space that is in there. Once I meet with them and go over their findings, we can toss some ideas back and forth... I am working on the design of the top box and output pipe..

I am leaning towards a tube runner design which will stop mid way to the TB on each side. Then, the center Y-piece will be another CF piece with 2 rubber pieces connecting it to the outlet pipes of the airboxes.

I like the idea of having a separate Y-piece in case the TB or something else needs to change, it wont affect the entire airbox assembly.

I'll have more details once I speak with them.. Should be meeting today or tomorrow if they are ready for me.