jangy

Let's stay open minded on RENNtech and allow them to address their side as well. My vote is we don't need or want their box anymore as VRUS has already surpassed it. But, they should take ownership of this issue and at least close it out. they have every right to protect their niche, but should use standard competitive business practices and not those used by the Vegas Wedding Chapels. I still hope that your distributor was the true problema nd that how VRUS was treated is not really what RENN intended. Fingers crossed as i need pulley, ECU, etc.

Grumpy666

I think it's time to call your CC company and dispute the charge. Let them deal with whomever is jerking you around.

Theoretically, you already have the RT airbox sitting under your hood, so why pay for another one that you probably won't be able to sell - at least not for what you payed.

vrus

Grumpy,

Normally I would have no problem doing this.. Heck, normally, I would of had a pack of lawyers on Renntech's butt getting this problem resolved..

My real issue is that the "distributor" that I went through is a valued friend, and I dont want to drag him through this. My money is with them, their money is with Renntech.. See the issue now?

If I dispute the charge, it will come out of the distributor's pocket, and then they'll have to fight with Renntech to get their money back.

I won't cause them grief because my decision to purchase that product... When I told him to get it for me, he asked me twice "Are you sure?"...

Really, the problem was that there wasnt enough information available for me to make a proper decision on whether to buy or not, and now having learned all of this, it's basically too late. I am sure some people that have this Renntech system will be a little suprised/shocked at learning some of this info also.

It's ok.. Even if the box arrives in a few weeks or months, I've gotten to the information I was after and I have moved on. I will raffle it off and raise whatever money I can to recoup the costs.

My concentration is on making OUR product now.

Thanks for the input and the support! Much appreciated.

jamusa

Right now i assure you that Renntech is pondering as to which move should they make next........by simply not producing the airbox,or refunding your $$$$$...quite a few people ,customers and future customers including myself is looking at them differently .
They have to know that sooner or later some one was gonna find out their little scheme........as the saying go ..."you can fool the people sometime,but you cant fool the people all the time"
Unless Renntech comes on the board and make a formal apology for misleading the people,i vote that everyone should not use any Renntech products.
They claim 15-20% rwhp with their c/f airbox mod.......everyone that uses it claimed it makes 0-3 rwhp.And who is to say if this gain was not done on a day with better wether condition.
This is real dissapointed,b/c i was just about to purchase one of theif c/f air boxes.
Look on it like this,they might have won the battle ,but they have lost the war.As tuners their business thrives on people that are automobile enthuiast with a quest for performance that exceed stock performance.
Come on Renntech........its your move next.......we are all watching to see what move if any you are gonna make.If you are still pondering at this point,i would at least say ...refund the money,its the honarable thing to do,plus it may help you save some customers.

Rock

Amazing information!! I thought that all Tuners were honest.

I wonder if Renntech's R&D stands for Receive money & Deceive customers

sid 951

WOW!!!! i've been following this thread just because of interest in MB and the e55 i own a porsche and have seen this type of behaviour before from tuners-albeit probably not this bad-hacking up a factory box and modifying it for r&d then developing a product is one thing but this? it makes you really wonder about the rest of renntech products-talk about a bad taste in your mouth. as far as the box you ordered it would be interesting to see what happens now,also the credibility of renntech although there are two types of tuners those who really push the envelope of performance-these are the one's who are innovative think outside the box and really do r&d and then you have the one's who just pretty stuff up and sell it as a performance part making such great claims as "our newest product after a long r&d process."

My hats off to you guys-1 for taking the time,effort,and capital required to develop what looks to be an outstanding product-that will no doubt overdeliver in the performance as well as the cost end
and 2-call renntech out not only on their customer service abilities but also on what they are selling as well.
GOOD LUCK!!!!! and godspeed

lkirchner

Victor,

I did get your e-mail and was able to trace the hose on my wife's E55 and the found the inlet on my SL. Thanks,

Lou

catalystkid

I was weeks away from purchasing RENNtechs ECU, Pully, and Headers. Needless to say I will not spend a dime on their products until this is resolved. I hope they realize they are not messing with one person and that they are holding the money of over 30 people! Talk about a PR disaster waiting to happen.

ChicagoX

I am also holding on to my mod $$$ until the outcome......

Do you hear the crowd chanting?

"Vrus....Vrus......Vrus...."

dragonAMG

One of you loyal Renntech customers should email your old pal Harlot, I mean Harmut this thread so this can be straightened out with all monies being returned to Vrus... this is ridiculous. Why anyone would consider buying Renntech from this point forward is beyond me. Overpriced, terrible customer service, and reworked OEM parts.

vader

Before we go totally Postal on Renntech...we should at least keep in mind this portion of what Lou posted....there WAS some thought and R&D put into the top 1/2. We expected to see a huge difference in design but if MB/AMG came up with the bottom half it just may be the best they could come up with given the lack of room in the engine bay and the top 1/2 is the only area where any type of airflow increase could be had. If in fact they are purposefully yanking Vic's chain ,that is unacceptable and the $$$ better be refunded FAST. They probably got wind of the reason it was so publicly being purchased and were a little concerned about their stuff being used for this purpose for whatever reason. ...but we wouldn't to go so far as saying they are a ripoff company. Their track record doesn't warrant that. Lets let Vic look hard at this and come up with a piece that is head and shoulders above the rest. I have pulley/ECU ready to install and my concern is whether they get a fix for the reflash before I install...not their CF airbox since we KNOW Vic is gonna have a killer unit on the drawing board. Easy for me to say since I didn't pony up big bucks for their CF but thats my .02

jangy

Stay patient and let this play out BEFORE we say it is all RENNTech's blame.

As I said, they have a right to defend their business. It is HOW they go about it that matters. We do not know yet for sure EXACTLY what happenned. As Victor can attest, I have been in the middle of it for months now but did not want to go public until I was sure that there is a disconnect (which there is). Let's just make sure some wires weren't crossed elsewhere before we decide.

Grumpy666

OK - your money - your decision.

But, friendship not withstanding, if I call a distributor and cancel an order that's past due with no delivery in sight, the words I expect to hear are, "I'm on it," not, "Well, that's just the way they are, you'll have to wait and see."

Friendship is a 2-way street. I'm not banging on you - it's just that I've been down similar roads before and I don't want to see you get burned because you're a nice guy. My perspective. Do what you feel is right.

Rock

Jangy,

You are being cryptic. "In the middle of" what?

I am sure Renntech sells a number of these boxes to different distributors including dealers. How could they possibly know where Victor ordered his from?

Grumpy666

Agree - but, how do you account for the price they charge? It's certainly not to recoup R&D costs. (That's a rhetorical question, it's not aimed at you, Bob.)

vader

I don't know Grump but it's a very limited market that is perceived to be affluent with the customer not usually doing their own work...God forbid the nails get dirty.Just drop it off and write a check.Overhead, name recognition plus they are entitled to a profit etc. . Re-couping R&D has to be spread across the entire business line with the limited quantities sold. That being said.. the CF airbox could be considered a bit of a stretch huh !!! Re- Badge engineering is all around us. I'm not making excuses for Renntech or justifying their price structure. Just trying to look at it for what it is. Drug companies, Oil companies. We always pay more for brand names I guess. We just have to make sure Vic doesn't become a brand name ! Now what we need is for one of you other brainiacs to come up with a fix for re-flash and look into the by pass valve...do it in your home lab and pass the savings along to us all !!!

lkirchner

I spoke to Bob Brady of RennTech prior to ordering the air box. He did state that they spent quite a bit of R&D on the design of the box. I ran a company that made storage devices for the likes of HP,EMC,Unisys, etc. We used very sophoisticated software to design and measure the airflow around disk drives, power supplies and other internal components. One thing that always amazed me was what appeared to be correct and logical visually was normally not correct-- airflow is a science.

When you compare the stock unit to the RT upper portion of the box there is a significant difference. The cone shape where the 2 sides meet is a strange looking thing and probably serves a purpose---it is something that you probably would not logically design. That said the unit is pricey and probably costs 1/3 of he retail price to produce. However all RT stuff is expensive. To the other poster who stated the products are for the affluent who don't get their hands dirty and have someone else do it I will personally take exception since I certainly do get dirt under the fingernails from toying with my cars.

I would not say that Renntech is less than honest since my RT mods on my SL have been very good---- Overpriced but good but look at my signiature. This is not the first time and probably not the last time that I will throw money down the drain.

jangy

Sorry Rock, didn't mean to speak in code. I never said they knew which one was for VRUS. Also, I didn't mean to imply that I am in the middle of anything as I am not. Actually, I joined the Group R&D project last night, so I surely wouldn't be supporting both sides.

Here is my take, and please note that it is MY TAKE!! I heard it from nobody and have NEVER spoken to RENNTECH.

Months ago before it was extremely clear what VRUS was up to, I had a "premonition" that he was not going to get the box. As I said, Victor can vouch for that and I'd rather not get into details on the whys and hows because it does not change ANYTHING. At the time, it may not have even been true as we all know how I am with spewing at the mout. This is EXTEREMLY common practice in the business world. That is why there are rules and regulations to protect against monopolization AND defend business. I do not believe that prohibiting VRUS from getting a RENN box is illegal or unethical. That is simply my opinion. BUT, I do have issues with how it APPEARS to have been handled. If they single handedly took his $$ and have just decided to ignore him, then that is simply bad business and they will pay with their reputation. I still do not see it as illegal as VRUS has not demanded his money back. Keep in mind he dealt with a distributor and that is who he would need to demand it from (as he already said).
Now, as for how they know which box is for him. How many orders do you really think they get for a simple box? It is low. Victor is not the only one not getting a box. NOBODY IS. The only way I know of to get on the "priority" list for now is to pay for and get a full blown Stage 5.
Hope this helps. I wasn't trying to stir any pot and have stayed private about this for some time. However, I think the info I had is out so i spoke up because I did not want people to over-react and hate RENN IF they were not the sole contributor. I am not saying they were or were not. i am simply saying to wait and see what happenned. VRUS is being patient, so why not the rest of us?
I will play devil's advocate here. How do we know that VRUS' distributor did not play a role? How do we know that VRUS was not planning on "stealing" the design? I understand the truth as VRUS and I went round and round with your exact same questions MONTHS ago. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to vouch for him or this project so my opinion is not important. The risk is obvious and RENN should have acted or they would never last as a company.

jamusa

We both agree and understand with what you are saying,but its beyond that now.At this point,now that everything is out in the open,Renntech should just step up and refund the people their money.
If Renntech continue to hold the money,this thread is gonna be the biggest thread this site has ever seen,because Renntech is now holding money for 29 angry people,not to mention people who might have been dissopointed with their service at one point or another.
There are people waiting to get an airbox from Renntech,but now they are pondering,waiting on the outcome of this saga.

MACHC5

Sorry, but didn't VRUS say... I thought... the distributor had the money..?
RENNTech is not a fly-by-night company and for the price of one airbox, I don't think they would risk the good will they have long enjoyed in the Mercedes market.

Just my thoughts...

MachC5

vader

Don't take offense Lou, you misinterpreted my post. The key word there is perceived. I'm sure the tuners feel that the typical AMG buyer doesn't do his own work. I have been working on my own cars for a long time , regardless of who made it.

schwarzwagen

thank-you, someone with a brain. i was beginning to think i read 7 pages of BS for nothing.

if i was hartmut, i would refund him his money along with a letter stating that he has no right to use a RENNtech product as a baseline for proprietary development, have a nice day. maybe after making him wait for a while too. just for fun.

"let's all get together and buy a RENNtech box, and if it is good, let's copy it and discard the original on eBay to recoup our cost because we captain's of industry don't want to pay for the genuine article."

that is the most ridiculous thing i have read all week. you have 90k cars, with 20k in mods, bur you want to stick it to RENNtech. logic train not at the station.

lkirchner

No offense taken

vrus

You've got to be kidding??????? Maybe if you took the time to read the thread then you would understand the logic for ordering the Renntech box..

Here, let me give you the Cole's notes version..

- We want to build a CF airbox FROM SCRATCH
- Before we spend Thousands of dollars in making OUR OWN DESIGN, lets do a quick test of ** 1 OF ONLY 2 ** aftermarket airboxes that claim they improve performance. GruppeM or Renntech.
- I chose the RENNTECH box because I THOUGHT IT WAS BETTER!
- If I put the Renntech box on my car and it DID NOT IMPROVE POWER, then we would all know that pursuing an alternate design to the stock system might be an excercise in futility and a waste of our time. If it did make power, then it would prove there was room for improvement.
- I was going to sell off the "TEST" box (ie. Renntech box) and start doing the design of ours).. I already talked to Vadim (formerly Evosport) to make use of his design and he graciously agreed to send me his cad drawings so that I could review them and we could discuss how to move forward.

I stated NUMEROUS times that I had no intention of copying Renntech's design... Come on.. Use some common sense.. Do you actually think I would POST ON A PUBLIC FORUM on a day-to-day basis if I intended to rip off someone's design and then try to sell it to the market at a lower price????

Don't you think I would have *** QUIETLY & DISCRETELY *** purchased a Renntech box if I was "up to no good"???

Oh.. and by the way... Since when is it wrong for someone to purchase a COMPETITIVE Product to test it and see how it stacks up against what you want to develop???

Are you telling me that Microsoft doesnt have guys buying Oracle's Database Server so they can compare its features,stregths & weaknesses against their own product (SQL) ????

No.. In business, competitors never evaluate each other's products...

Heck... I at least have the guts to do it publicly and am showing that I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to hide.

Jesus H....

SLK55R

Well before we get too worked up about this ... Vrus still needs to get the airbox and test to see if it has performance gains. Who knows ... maybe that additional space does improve performance. I know that the reason my car didn't get it with the kit is that it doesn't fit. The Renntech kit IS higher than the stock airbox. As a Renntech customer I have no doubts that what they offer will give increases in HP. It might be expensive, some parts more than others(ex. Kleemann cams ... for the amount of money and work needed to put those in ... modest hp gains), but thats Renntech.

Regarding Renntech using AMG parts ... I actually really like that. I noticed on my supercharger kit that all the hoses etc were AMG parts.

Since the arrival of the Renntech airbox seems to be in question ... perhaps someone that already has one can dyno with it on and then go back to thier stock airbox and do a dyno. Should give Vrus the same info that he is looking for.