MHP/JRCART....The Rest Of The Story
02-12-2009, 01:32 PM
#176
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'll play Devil's Advocate #2:
What if with all the MHP....BG tuning....and another CA Bosch Tuner involved in this mess...and with ECUs and TCUs flying about the country haphazardly....someone "forgot" to actually tune jrcart's ECU. I know it sounds somewhat implausible.... but given some of the stuff I have been reading lately the truth does seem stranger than fiction....
Now mind you this doesn't say much for MHP's attention to details (which no one would probably defend)...but I just can't bring myself to believe (even with my colored past with Andy) that MHP/BG Tuning or whoever else involved would actually use a Powerchip tune file as their own.
Is there any diagnostic check in the ECU to see when the last time the ECU was flashed? If there is...that could tell us alot about the tune currently on jrcart's ECU.
Tom
What if with all the MHP....BG tuning....and another CA Bosch Tuner involved in this mess...and with ECUs and TCUs flying about the country haphazardly....someone "forgot" to actually tune jrcart's ECU. I know it sounds somewhat implausible.... but given some of the stuff I have been reading lately the truth does seem stranger than fiction....
Now mind you this doesn't say much for MHP's attention to details (which no one would probably defend)...but I just can't bring myself to believe (even with my colored past with Andy) that MHP/BG Tuning or whoever else involved would actually use a Powerchip tune file as their own.
Is there any diagnostic check in the ECU to see when the last time the ECU was flashed? If there is...that could tell us alot about the tune currently on jrcart's ECU.
Tom
If all tuners lock their codes, how did Andy get Powerchips' program?
02-12-2009, 01:47 PM
#177
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
2005 E55 ///AMG
Sort like copying a password protected document or spreadsheet is EASY...opening, viewing, and editing is the hard part without the password (or key in this instance).
02-12-2009, 01:59 PM
#179
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
02-12-2009, 02:29 PM
#180
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: chicago burbs
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fast cars and faster motorcycles ..
.
sheesh... i must be getting old..
i press one wrong tab and i end up here.
wow..
the good thing about the internet .. is that when the internet police come out
they ALWAYS get their man..
there is no way to hide from the truth..
.
sheesh... i must be getting old..
i press one wrong tab and i end up here.
wow..
the good thing about the internet .. is that when the internet police come out
they ALWAYS get their man..
there is no way to hide from the truth..
.
02-12-2009, 02:29 PM
#181
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
heres my question (and I've known Andy since way back in his mustang days):
If Andy was not tuning ECUs because they already had powerchip/renntech/kleeman tunes on them, what was he doing with the "stock" ECUs that he received. He obviously installed some tune on them. Is the consenus that he stole a tune from the aforementioned companies?
If there was this "keycode" lock on them, how is that possible?
just a few things Im not clear on...
If Andy was not tuning ECUs because they already had powerchip/renntech/kleeman tunes on them, what was he doing with the "stock" ECUs that he received. He obviously installed some tune on them. Is the consenus that he stole a tune from the aforementioned companies?
If there was this "keycode" lock on them, how is that possible?
just a few things Im not clear on...
02-12-2009, 03:04 PM
#182
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Since everybody is playing devil's advocate....
Devil's Advocate # 4:
If each tuner inserts these protected tags for security, how did Powerchip read MHP's NOS tune and determine that Andy advanced timing and changed many other parameters to constitue a new MHP unique tune?
Devil's Advocate # 4:
If each tuner inserts these protected tags for security, how did Powerchip read MHP's NOS tune and determine that Andy advanced timing and changed many other parameters to constitue a new MHP unique tune?
02-12-2009, 03:07 PM
#183
MBWorld Founder
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ones too fast according to CHP!
Since everybody is playing devil's advocate....
Devil's Advocate # 4:
If each tuner inserts these protected tags for security, how did Powerchip read MHP's NOS tune and determine that Andy advanced timing and changed many other parameters to constitue a new MHP unique tune?
Devil's Advocate # 4:
If each tuner inserts these protected tags for security, how did Powerchip read MHP's NOS tune and determine that Andy advanced timing and changed many other parameters to constitue a new MHP unique tune?
02-12-2009, 03:11 PM
#184
MBWorld Fanatic!
You got that right.
MBworld = internet S.W.A.T team
02-12-2009, 03:21 PM
#185
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
heres my question (and I've known Andy since way back in his mustang days):
If Andy was not tuning ECUs because they already had powerchip/renntech/kleeman tunes on them, what was he doing with the "stock" ECUs that he received. He obviously installed some tune on them. Is the consenus that he stole a tune from the aforementioned companies?
If there was this "keycode" lock on them, how is that possible?
just a few things Im not clear on...
If Andy was not tuning ECUs because they already had powerchip/renntech/kleeman tunes on them, what was he doing with the "stock" ECUs that he received. He obviously installed some tune on them. Is the consenus that he stole a tune from the aforementioned companies?
If there was this "keycode" lock on them, how is that possible?
just a few things Im not clear on...
02-12-2009, 03:32 PM
#186
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California, USA
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
E63 P30, CL500 Sport
So that means that it is possible for MHP to know Powerchip's tune as well (timing and other changes)..... without going trying to break the security codes, right?
02-12-2009, 03:35 PM
#187
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 1,762
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
04 w211 E55
open your eyes nimrod....there is a guy that posted above yours (MACH5) who has been out an ECU since early december and a guy by the name of Jakpro who is one of the most respected guys on this forum just posted an entire thread with lots of evidence. Keep your eyes peeled, there will be more coming forward, I was just PM'ed by one of them and he says he is getting his ducks in a row to post.
here's some help https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tory-vids.html
here's some help https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...tory-vids.html
02-12-2009, 03:37 PM
#188
MBWorld Founder
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ones too fast according to CHP!
That does not help any tuner though really. That is the easy part. The hard part is knowing where in the DME to adjust those maps.
thanks
brad
02-12-2009, 03:49 PM
#189
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
...what do you have to say now nimrod?
02-12-2009, 03:52 PM
#190
Most tuners also have tools sufficient to read the programming from an ecu. It is very difficult to maintain a competitive advantage on the tuning side because as once you ship, it is out there for everyone to see.
I am not saying the practice is right or wrong. I am only pointing out that it is a reality.
As for tools to log data, take a look at https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...rspective.html to get an idea of what you can see with logging. I happen to think it is a very good tool for getting more of a quantitative feel for a performance modification as opposed to the butt dyno qualitative feel.....
I am not saying the practice is right or wrong. I am only pointing out that it is a reality.
As for tools to log data, take a look at https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...rspective.html to get an idea of what you can see with logging. I happen to think it is a very good tool for getting more of a quantitative feel for a performance modification as opposed to the butt dyno qualitative feel.....
02-12-2009, 03:55 PM
#191
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I don't have much knowledge in all of this tuning stuff but I had a friend of mine send me a video of a M6 tuned by MHP and the dyno results showed that the M6 actually lost power. I don't have a clue if that helps any lol.
I almost wish to believe that JRcart is lying about these other guys staying quiet because I don't see how its possible that no 1 can come on a forum and speak about the experience they have had with MHP. GRAB YOUR B@**S fellazzz
I almost wish to believe that JRcart is lying about these other guys staying quiet because I don't see how its possible that no 1 can come on a forum and speak about the experience they have had with MHP. GRAB YOUR B@**S fellazzz
02-12-2009, 04:00 PM
#192
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 1,762
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
04 w211 E55
Iddiot, that was not an attack at all. I was saying that I hope you were lying about it because its unbelieveable that these guys are sitting around watching you trying to do sumthing and not speaking up. You misunderstood.
02-12-2009, 04:01 PM
#193
Using the BDM to access to the ECU once it is programmed with a tuners file is prevented by tags inserted on writing a tuned file. This is a commonly accepted practice by all tuners to "secure" their work. Each registered tuner has a unique number assigned to it, and it means that a tuner cannot read another tuners work using commercially available BDM equipment.
<snip>
Because Powerchips own unique copyright tags were present allowing ECU readout using BDM100 software, we did a checksum comparison between the file we last programmed into the car in question and the car "after MHP tuning".
<snip>
Had MHP enabled ‘noread’ protection like other registered tuners ALWAYS put into their code. or had they (or any other registered tuner) have entered their own unique tuning ID number in the code, Powerchip (or indeed any other tuner other than the copyright owner) would have been locked out from reading or examining the file that was contained in the ECU.
<snip>
Because Powerchips own unique copyright tags were present allowing ECU readout using BDM100 software, we did a checksum comparison between the file we last programmed into the car in question and the car "after MHP tuning".
<snip>
Had MHP enabled ‘noread’ protection like other registered tuners ALWAYS put into their code. or had they (or any other registered tuner) have entered their own unique tuning ID number in the code, Powerchip (or indeed any other tuner other than the copyright owner) would have been locked out from reading or examining the file that was contained in the ECU.
02-12-2009, 04:04 PM
#194
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
............whatever nimrod, it's not important and neither are you.
02-12-2009, 04:05 PM
#195
Nimrod; here is your attack on me and the post in which you say I am lying about other people with similar problems with MHP. Please note the time of your post was 9:20 pm central time and the other thread by Jakpro1 was started nearly 2 hours before that. See you are a nimrod!
"nimrod" "loser" "jerk"
I swear my 5 year old nephew comes up with more intelligent insults than you.
02-12-2009, 04:11 PM
#197
what I don't understand is if the V3 or whatever tune was in fact a Powerchip tune how could MHP been adjusting the shifting patterns / "TCU" adjustments or whatever you wanna call it.
From flying over the proof post it sounded to me that the Powerchip tune is "locked" so how did that work. Or was the improved shifting of the MHP tunes also just something happening in the imaginations of the MHP customers?
Maybe I need to re-read but this sounds very weird...
From flying over the proof post it sounded to me that the Powerchip tune is "locked" so how did that work. Or was the improved shifting of the MHP tunes also just something happening in the imaginations of the MHP customers?
Maybe I need to re-read but this sounds very weird...
02-12-2009, 04:40 PM
#200
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tx, L-town = Loser town
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
06' E55, 10' Harley Davidson F-250 6.4L TT
Wow! There are no words that can express MHP. I came in here not to long ago and Andy from MHP was biting everyones head off just talking alot of smack but now look at him. I'll tell you one thing. I smell! I smell!!!! cough,cough I smell! some P*****$$y. ANDY you dunn dunnit my ni**a.
As for you Jim I hope you get this all your money back plus more from this *****. Let's put this guys rear in gear or should I say this queers rear in gear.
As for you Jim I hope you get this all your money back plus more from this *****. Let's put this guys rear in gear or should I say this queers rear in gear.
