Marcus Frost

After some help from board members in disabling the ESP, I finally got my W211 E55 to dyno.

Passes were made on a Mustang Dyno. About 70 degrees inside the shop. I was not able to get any torque readings because I don't know where there is an rpm lead from the motor (maybe someone knows?). Not that it matters, but just for everyone's info: Mustang Dynos tend to read lower (actually, more accurately) than the industry standard Dynojet Dynos.

I made 4 passes.

#1 - 4th gear, from 2000rpm - hit 155mph limiter at 5500rpm, wasn't able to dyno to redline
2 minute cool down
#2 - 3rd gear, from 2000rpm - 409rwhp
30 second cool down
#3 - 3rd gear, from 2000rpm - 380rwhp
5 minute cool down
#3 - 3rd gear, from 3000rpm - 410rwhp

410rwhp with 18% drivetrain loss equates to 500hp at the crank, further solidifying the fact that these cars make just as much power as their other 55 counterparts, and are simply labeled 469hp for marketing purposes.

This car lost nearly 30rwhp from back ot back runs (which was the purpose of allowing 30 seconds) and that really puts into perspective that raising the boost on this car is *NOT* the way to increase it's performance from the get go. I'm not the first person to be stunned by the loss due to heat soak this car experiences with it's sub-par cooling system. I am going to be addressing that before I touch the boost on this car, because first off - 12psi on a 5.5L motor is a LOT of boost as it is and it's not making the power it could because of inefficiency, and secondly improving the cooling system of the car will only improve it overall, from reliability, to performance, and everything in between.

absent

Try Porsche Exchange,they know how to read Rpm's.
On their Dynojet,my E55 with Renntech ECU and Pulley read only 399 rwhp and 480 lb torque.

Marcus Frost

absent;

Thanks for the heads up, I'd like to find out where the RPM is anyways just so that I can use it for other monitoring purposes. How's the 600 doing?

You should come out with us Chicago boys on Thursdays.

-m

ZEEOHHSIX01

good #'s suprised they didnt have max torque on the dyno sheet . im also suprised the bigger pulleys kill these cars i have an 03 svt lightning and the pulleys make a world of diffrence after its tuned and afr are happy.

Marcus Frost

ZEE;

You cannot get a torque reading without an RPM signal. Next time I hit the dyno I will hopefully know where I can tap for one.

Bigger pulleys don't kill these cars, 399rwhp is very low for a Stage 1 E55, I'm thinking they still need to adjust their dyno some.

-m

ZEEOHHSIX01

i use the negative side of my coils for my rpm signal readings but this is on a wide band commander have no clue on the e55 but i wanna kick my self for buying the wife a e500 instead of an e55 hopefully next year

Schiznick

Quick question....

Why do people keep using 18% as the number for driveline loss? If you use 15% all of the numbers are far more in line with what MB puts out....

Saw the article in C&D with the Renntech SL600 with 640 HP that runs slower than the SL65 with 604..... I think a stock SL65 would have done just as well in the Supercar shootout.

My latest theory is that MB driveline loss is less than what people are using.

Just a thought.

Could someone please pull their engine out and run it on a bench dyno then put it in their car any dyno it again so that we can find out what the true driveling loss is?

Thanks!

Schiznick

BlownV8

The new trannys starting with the 210 E55 feel every bit as efficitent as a manual tranny. I'll agree with the 15% drive loss from our trannys.

Marcus Frost

Schiznick,

Cars with high stall torque converters can lose up to 30% under load when left unlocked. The 55/65 drivetrain is very efficient, with auto lockup in all forward gears. However, there will still be more loss than a manual transmission in my opinion just because of the presence of a torque converter and the fact that lockup is automatic instead of manual. I don't know if the car locks up the TC at WOT, it may or may not, I'm not sure. I'm definitely not willing to say it only loses 15%, when I know there are a number of manual cars that barely hit that #.

18% is a safe figure to go by for an efficient automatic car, in my experience.

Another thing to consider - the fact that there are E55s running 116mph trap speeds at the drag strip weighing 4200lbs is enough to prove that MB highly underrates their cars. There is no way the rated 469hp is enough to propel a 4200lb car to 116mph trap speeds. Another reason I am lead to believe it's 18% and not 15%.

-m

JLee81

Could you(original thread starter)please post the graph you got from the dyno shop?
I really don't believe that the stock E55 makes that much power at the wheel.
At which shop did you dyno it?
What kind of machine is it? dynojet?, dyno dynamics?
Please let me know

MB Fanatic

Marcus is usually the most technical out of all of us here at the forum. Notice he said he used a Mustang Dyno and not a Dynojet or Dyno dynamics. There have been others who have gotten similar numbers as him so I dont question his credibility. It has been proven that this car makes just as much power as the SL 55, S 55, and CL 55. It does seem as a marketing scheme otherwise can you imagine all the other E 55's out there??

Beowulf

If you'll re-read the initial post, you'll see that his figures were obtained on a Mustang dyno. The Mustang dyno numbers are almost always more conservative that Dynojet results because the Mustang can simulate real world aerodynamic and rolling frictional loads on the vehicle, while the Dynojet cannot. A good discussion of the differences between the two can be found at: http://www.mustangdyne.com/Articles/...article-01.htm

absent

399 hp at the wheels is still pretty good but could be better of course.
They were able to read E55's rpms but not in the 600.
Where do you meet on Thursdays?

BlownV8

How can you get an accurate dyno of you don't have an RPM signal?
HP= torque/5252

Marcus Frost

JLee81,

I will somehow have to digitize the print outs, I'll try to get around to it this week. Refer to other follow up posts as well.

MB Fanatic,

I am actually very honored by that distinction. I really am just here for the same reasons everyone else is, and all I can hope for is being able to give something in return.

absent,

It varies, but email me privately if interested. It's usually out in the northwest burbs - Schaumburg, Barrington, Rolling Meadows and the like - lots of wide open highways. I've had a number of jaunts against friends in everything from Gallardo's to 911TTs, SVT Lightnings, 3000GT VR4s, you name it. Season is winding down a bit now but we may still have some nice days left. Let me know.

-m

ColorChange

Marcus: How do you disable the ESM? And also, what do you guys do on Thursdays?

housclass

i'm like blownv8...Horsepower numbers come from...torque times rpm divided by 5252

john

JLee81

Hello, Marcus..
This simply does not make any sense to me. I personally dynoed my car about 3 times so far. So I can't say that I have a lot of experience with dyno result. Last Thursday, I went to ACS Racing down in Hanover MA to dyno with the ESP off (it works on my car too.) You said that it hit the speed limiter. This is not true if you turned off the ESP with the mothod which was mentioned in another post.

There is NO SPEED LIMITER if you disable this thing!!!!
If you turned it off completely, that means you are in the engine dyno mode.
It simply will beat the **** out of your engine until you want it to stop.

During my dyno, I was in the car when the person was flooring my car. The Speed literally kick over 160mph(went over 160 mph) at the end of 4th gear. The speed limiter in E55 actually works at 158mph.

Well.. that's why I asked you where you dynoed your car. I simply could not believe the result you stated above. One of my friend in Boston has 04 E55 from Chamber motorcars in Somerville MA. I will take his car(if he doesn't mind) to dyno and post the result soon (with ESP totally off).

Marcus Frost

BlownV8,

The dyno is a Mustang dyno, not a Dynojet that needs RPM input. It can calculate hp a variety of ways. You can read about the dyno my shop uses here: http://www.mustangdyne.com/demo/ChassisDyno/md1750.htm

JLee81,

You have a CLK with a M112 motor, I have an E with a M113K motor. I cannot explain to you why your CLK didn't hit a speed limiter, and mine did. The second there was any hesitation around 155mph, I let off as I immediately remembered the speed governor. I also do not have the same gear ratios as you do because at ~155mph I was still in the mid 5000rpm range, not 6000rpm.

I've spent a lot of time on dynos with my own cars, cars I've worked on, and cars I've just seen make passes on them. I've dyno'd on Mustang Dynos, Dynojet Dynos, and even Dynapack Dynos. I like to think that something like 100 hours on various dyno's gives you a bit of familiarity with the process

Arguing about a speed limiter is moot even from the get go because dynoing in 4th or 3rd gear does not matter, especially on a Mustang Dyno. You achieve the same results.

-m

BlownV8

Power (hp) = Torque (lb-ft) * RPM / 5252

Torque = 5,252 x hp/Rpm

or

Power (hp) = Force (lb) * Velocity (MPH) / 374

JLee81

Alright. I will just wait for your original scanned dyno chart to come up.
They printed you one right? Most shops do. ^^;

Beowulf

Marcus' dyno results, as noted previously, are conservative, given that it was done on a Mustang dyno. Since you insist on seeing something in print, check the stock E55 dyno graph done on a Dynojet in this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/73486-what-does-w211-really-produce-crank-493hp.html

Personally, I find dyno results a good tuning aid, but BS if you're talking real world bragging rights. Show me actual numbers from the dragstrip. You seem to question the amount of power that a stock E55 makes, but the quarter-mile data that forum members have supplied documents a car that is putting down over 400 rear wheel horsepower. You do the math: how much power do you think it takes to propel a 4200 lb (without driver) car to the following recent 1/4 mile performances by stock E55's:

Marcus: 12.27 seconds @ 113.89 mph (high trap speed: 114.72)(https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/84197-my-day-strip-bone-stock-03-w211-e55-runs-12-27-113-89mph.html)

DerekFSU: 12.331 seconds @ 115.18 mph (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/84967-12-331-1-4-mile-doin-nothin.html)

enzom: 12.071 seconds @ 116.85 (https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/86350-12-07-116-85-bone-stock.html)

Even considering differences in environmental & strip conditions, the results seem pretty consistent and I find your skepticism groundless.