JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Awesome. Will this 2-stage oil pump technique end up like the automatic seat belts in the 80s? Or will it become a permanent thing like the 3rd brake light? How many people have disabled the Eco Start/Stop function on their cars? Yes, it empirically saves gas, but what is the cost to engine longevity?

Honestly, I don't think Tasos made a convincing case, and by his 3rd video, he was pretty ambivalent about it. (He even agreed with a comment I posted.) He just repeated that oil wouldn't last as long between oil changes and maybe it would shorten the oil pump life, but admitted he had no way to prove that. I like the guy, but he came right out of the gate saying it was "bad" and unjustified, but later had to walk back a little once other arguments were presented.

CaliBenzDriver

What's funny is: Actions Speak Louder Than Words, right?

-- What does Tasos spends the greatest time doing on videos ??

> rebuilding engines from scratch with cylinders damage.

He is a master craftsman

TomZVB

Back about year ago, Tasos posted a tune up video for a ML63 with greater than 180k km. During the inspection (part 1), it was noticed that the
solenoid had been disconnected. His commentary notes that disconnection was not a cause for concern.

Ran mine pretty hard this afternoon… all I can say is that this ***** is right! Had one of my closest friends riding shotgun today testing post-ignition coil changes (we’ve been car guys together since we were teenagers) and he was blown away by how responsive the car was as well as with how brutal the car could be from one moment to the next.

I’ve had the car a month now and this is definitely the best it has run since owning it.

It is not tuned (to my knowledge anyway).

TomZVB

Anyone have a detailed exploded view of the pump?

Looking at the orientation of the solenoid plunger, I don’t see how it works in the way Tasos describes (plunger alters phasing of the vane housing).

The plunger has an up/down motion - my thinking is that it limits flow through the channel just before the check-ball regulator. Output of the pump cannot be altered in the way described.

Anyway, just some late night musings.

Kanoosh

Update for my 2014 E550 after about 500-750miles

I have a Stage 1 with a TCU Tune (Intakes, full catless exhaust, bov, upgraded heatx pump), previous to unplugging the oil solenoid I had the same issue as everyone else with a delayed throttle response. That has since disappeared, no more lag or hesitation the car just goes. I used to throw the car in manual or agility mode but now I basically leave it on E due to how responsive it is. I have noticed fuel values and lambda becoming a lot better as time goes on. Its been about a month or more of spirited and casual driving and I have not had a single problem. Car is still a mid 11 second sedan that just amazes me. This is probably one of the better mods I've done to the car. Cold starts sound amazing, engine sounds perfect even in the cold, car warms up a lot quicker now since low rpms is getting oil sprayed onto the cylinders and in turn allows the oil to warm up quicker. Whenever I give it like 50-60 percent throttle the car builds boost and throws me back in my seat

I will say though, after some fun pulls and logging, the oil and coolant temps drop dramatically, oil temp will be at 200-205F then drop down to about 185F-190F and will stay at that temp for some time. Same with coolant, on the dash I'll see the main temps drop about 5-10 degrees and the split cooling drop 10-20 degrees. After awhile it will gradually go back up but it definitely is something new. Temps outside is usually around 45-50F when I notice this, not sure if anyone else gets the same results.

CaliBenzDriver

I don't muscle turbos but I can see the ECU being very responsive to keep coolant within its target range by using smart thermostat + PWM fan.

With random oil circulation most of the core cooling is carried out by coolant transfer alone.

With normal oiling heat is removed continuously by the oil and coolant. That means less extreme heat stress is built up. Heatsoaks are minimized.

You should expect map adaptations to take some time as the mechanicals are improving:

• VVT Phasers positioning
• Heated Thermostat
• Cylinders individual mixtures
• TCU shift points
• HPFP valve timing

Many ppl expect an On/Off response simply by providing normal pressure... NOPE!!

ECU works with optimized maps to deliver realtime response from offline optimisations. That takes time... you'll notice improvement are clearly converging towards responsive timings.

The most impressive is the accelerator map transformation.
At 80MPH it barely needs any squeezing to get power. Its a real pleasure to drive these more responsive controls: gas, brakes and steering.
Be patient as the Bosch technology is tuning your engine. Eventually tranny will catch up with optimized shift paterns once the engine delivers predictible output, tranny will match.

Many ppl including myself enjoy how their garage is no longer super heated upon return... that's a significant improvement.
✌️

​

PekkaH

Hi! I am also with M278 engine as you. Nice results you got! Im going to do this mod after winter time due my car is in garage now. It's so cold here in Finland. Do you mean that your (split cooling) intake temps drop 10-20F after this mod??

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

The exact same thing happened to me yesterday for the first time I am aware of. The temp gauge even moved from the normal 10:30 position to just above the 9:00 position. The temps for both oil and coolant dropped into the low to mid 180s momentarily. Of course, as I drove below 45 mph, they heated up to "normal" again. Normal for me is 199°F coolant and 205°-212°F oil. Ambient temps were 48°-51°F. At first I thought something was wrong, like a stuck open thermostat. But things seemed to normalize. I did recently change my oil, but I don't know why that would have anything to do with it. I change oil every 5000 miles.

PoonFlavordTang

I have a w166 and no cel. Driven over 1k miles with no cel.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

I think it would be interesting to know what software version people have on like models that are experiencing a CEL versus those that do not.

kevm14

FWIW, BenzNinja updated my E63 ECU to latest before this whole thing and I don't have a code. I will get the SW version and edit this post.

Before update
After update
VC15 sounds familiar. That's what the S63 was running that set the CEL for P06DA. I could poke through the different versions but since Xentry won't tell me which codes should set a CEL, I don't know what I'd be looking for.

kevm14

I still haven't watched the Tasos videos because I think I'm going to get frustrated. I will eventually.

For now I think I want to make a hard claim that his comments about oil pump life or oil shearing are mostly BS.

I do not believe that the existence of the oil pressure reducing solenoid is, IN ANY WAY, to preserve or extend oil pump life. Period.

Second, I do not believe that going from 20 to 40 psi of oil pressure or whatever will impact oil shearing or life in any measurable way. These are all normal pressures for all internal combustion engines. Oil does not need any special care if the oil pump runs at 20, 40, 60 or 80 psi.

Third, oil shearing occurs, based on my research, at substantially higher pressures. Example 1: high pressure oil pump such as used to fire diesel engine fuel injectors (~3000 psi). Example 2: rod bearings. The forces on the oil film (extraordinarily severe) are not even comparable to what happens inside the oil pump.

Fourth, engine oil is specifically designed to be shear stable in the first place, because this is not new information.

Fifth, don't believe me? Check your Blackstone reports pre and post unplugging. I'll wait.

thesaintusa

What did you do differently to get the plug off?

CaliBenzDriver

Listen to short MP3 clip... you can hear what my idle has sound like for the past 3 weeks...

It starts with all the usual GDI tickings then switches over to sound pretty much like a quiet wip-crack direct injected diesel truck engine.

With an engine still warm (45mn haircut) after restart, the ticking goes away when re-entering heated Lambda "closed-loop".
That tells me tick vs. quiet is mixture related.

During the clip I go back and fort 1ft over the engine cover left to right to left over the exhaust and drive belt.

The frequency is that of usual rattlesnake work but the high pitch ticking is distinctly no longer included.

50kMi old serpentine belt has gone silent with the engine smoothness. I can't hear any type of belt noise in there: everything so unusually quiet!

No coolant + oily smell ... I am not used to this engine being on his best behavior

the idle is now about 615.RPM.

smoooth low idle (good piston seals)

I've had this top film added early on to make a straighter windshield outline:

filler strip on each side of MFK stereo-camera

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

If the clip is supposed to be the first image, I think you need to upload it first to YouTube and then post the link. Can we attach video recordings directly?

CaliBenzDriver

it's just an mp3 SOUND clip format,
I was waiting for a brunch table and thought I would record the latest trick - This engine had never ever sounded like that once since its first day.

I am in disbelief myself... but happy to make a good thing great. Lemonade is healthy.


I like snapping the full grown bugs out this chassis line. We've got couple good ones left.
Loads of fun afterwards

lampeater

Not sure if this is just a coincidence or not, but I unplugged my solenoid when I did my last oil change with Liqui Moly Molygen 5w40 and MoS2 and it's been roughly 1500 miles since.
The car runs as it should and the results are just as everyone here has stated, but I've been getting multiple "Check engine oil (Add 1 quart)" messages come up since with the only new thing done being unplugging the solenoid.
There's no blue smoke, the smell of burning oil, or noticeable leaks, etc. When it first did that, I added the additional 1/2 bottle I had from the oil change and checking the oil level via dipstick shows that it's normal, closer to max.
I haven't added any oil since and the message popped up twice in the last few days with no change in oil level. Prior to this, I occasionally get the message maybe once per 5k interval oil change if that, but for it to show up multiple times in 1500 miles is worrying me.
I've noticed this occurs when the engine is fully warmed up (oil 190+) and I've been driving for a bit. Dug through this thread and so far it seems I'm the only one with the issue. I just replugged the solenoid back in today and went on a good drive and didn't get a popup.

altesporsche

I noticed pretty much the same sort of benefits as you are stating here. I thought it may have been a psychological thing lol but to see others with the same results makes me settle a bit. Ive been running mine like it for about 5-600kms now and noticed a difference right away.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

OK, but I can't hear anything either. Is there supposed to be an attachment?

CaliBenzDriver

I have uploaded it like 3times....

altesporsche

if the information from Mercedes is correct then it’s highly unlikely the solenoid caused the oil level light. Those two shouldn’t be related in the ECU logic.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Great! Now it appears. Honestly, it wasn't there before. I kept checking.

CaliBenzDriver

.... and I am afraid the piston rings are crusted solid letting uncontrolled amount of oil through.

In that case back to factory default solenoid pump may be your best course. If you consume too much oil, your cats and Lambda will finish to get clogged up as a result!

You want to figure exactly which way your oil getting lost: cylinder or PCV?
Perhaps just one single cylinder has a significant damage or multiple cylinders are prematurely worned out ...

altesporsche

This is a variable displacement vane pump. The spring on the cam housing is a dead give away. I'm not sure how this pump is controlled or how it works fully yet as there is little info in the way of schematics etc.. available. I've only recently taken an interest in it when i disconnected the solenoid on my pump. But as a fluid power engineer this pump setup is pretty interesting to see in an engine. Its possible the solenoid alters the volume via pilot on the cam housing. Some of the time there is a screw to physically adjust volume based on requirements and others its via solenoid in an on off configuration or proportional. In this situation it appears to be on off. But I'm not entirely sure on this yet for this pump for the M157 and M278, however I'm digging for more info.






EDIT: Now that I've seen this Tasos guys explanation that's he's posted a few days ago, i see that this pump setup is exactly as i had suspected. its variable volume, However his explanation of when it shifts its providing "more pressure" is incorrect. it provides volume, restriction can only make pressure.. Either way more volume of oil is always going to be better for wear. The limits of 2 vs. 4 bar is a bit odd unless they have calculated this on restriction in the circuit and volume applied, so unless there are pressure regulating valves in one position vs the other then, these pressures are approx pressure. As for the comment on oil life times, i don't think plugged or unplugged makes much difference if you are changing oils at normal intervals. if you are going to 15k on these engines you are simply nuts anyways lol

altesporsche

He can get a leak down test to determine the condition of the rings.