Although it was quite hard to read all 30 pages here about how/why/when the Software over the Lin bus from Engine ECU is trying to manage the energy production of the ALTernator, I didn't find ( this doesn't mean that doesn't exist any post on this long thread) anything about why/when the Engine ECU consume so much effort doing this.

I refuse the idea that all this effort is intended only to mess Powertrain voltage.


So, as the energy can't be produced nor consumed and only can be transformed, my first idea is to ask if you know from where the Alternator can get the cinetic energy to transform into electrical energy?

 

It took some doing to debug factory issues out of my new chassis...

Solderless used in peripheral modules tend to fall into networking disruption. They get main battery "drained by parking" and help storm CGW.


> Simple things to do:
-- Float your main AGM battery
-- Reboot chassis as needed
-- Read about experimental ALT-LIN procedure

 

To understand how the Bosch ECU manages the Alternator output you'll need to read the WIS documents.

This distributed function involves timely networking between:

• Battery sensing LIN module
• Rear-SAM LIN + CAN-B
• Main Gateway CAN-B <-> C
• ECU CAN-C + LIN
• Alternator LIN

The result is a dynamically controlled voltage to provide chassis power and charge a battery. AUX charge remains un-regulated.

Charging a lead-acid starter battery is hardly new except now ECU is able to use "opportunistic charging" during deceleration while the battery needs charging and decrease ALT load during accelerations.

When battery is recognized as nearly charged up the chassis voltage is switched to a lower 12.6V float voltage. Conventional alternators simply drop from 14.4V to 13.7V, so here's a one volt difference with low battery current.

All of that would be welcomed world class technology if chassis could tolerate well the [12.6V to 14.9V] voltage swings.


> UNFORTUNATELY :
The chassis is found non-compliant for at least two 4x reasons:

1. Core networking gets delayed
2. Basic engine/tranny performance are affected
3. Battery deep-drained while driving
4. Killer limp-mode at Hwy speed

This power mgt is not rocket-science. When so much relies on Bosch own CAN networking, service technicians should at least be provided with actionable troubleshooting data.
For that purpose it would be a tremendous help to collect/display every module DATA THROUGHPUT I/O SPEED.
That sould help quickly diagnose what networked module are disfunctioning (ESP, CGW, ECU,...)


By understanding the limited controls we have, some of us have chosen to experiment normal performance.

 

Hopefully later in life the firmware related to this can be updated (by someone / something) to reduce the voltage swings and keep it voltage between 12.6 and 14.5 across the board. It seems the BAT-LIN sensor can be updated but would require updates to the ECU to recognize the newer rev sensor. Not sure if there are any benefits to that.

Also...not sure if its placebo but my bluetooth audio is a lot more stable now since disconneting the ALT-LIN. Its not skipping as much as it used to. 🤔

 

Your Bluetooth improved behavior is likely due to better networking. The module CPU has more bandwidth available to run the code in charge of audio - If you're running Samsung Android I have effective experimental tweaks to pump up performance above iOS.

As far as voltage swings, besides impacting CAN Networking, testing shows GDI timings are super dependent on stable voltage. Likely because of spark voltage.
COPS voltage should be regulated independently from chassis. I have experimented with that using Hitachi COPS. There's a cheap chip that does 12VDC voltage step-up.

Something similar is already used to perfectly run the piezo injectors near 150V.

> FREEBIE INCENTIVE:
Given Stable Timing Conditions your/my "stock" engine runs vibration free under load uphill at 4k.R without clunky piston skirt noise and still gets great gas mileage on flat highway course....

 

You are 100% right, no errors in your judgement.

100% right does not mean there is no room for other arguments. Raising or lowering the level of understanding, we can consider adding the following to your arguments:

- ALTernator to produce electric energy - let's say 100A multiplied by 14,4 V, something like 1,44 KW, usually will need at least 2 KW of kinetic energy ( efficiency , heat, cable length voltage loss, etc )...seams cheap if you push throttle to 100%, but when you drive with eyes fixed on Board Computer trying to obtain better consumption, will need 10-12 KW to keep your car at a certain speed, so those 2 KW from ALT is quite 20%. And guess what....? 10 KW for driving smooth + 2 KW ALT should be obtained from the expensive gasoline, in fact from your $$$. as the energy can't be produced nor consumed...



So Bosch and Delphi on MB just use this simple software to calm down the ALT ------now pay close attention to what comes next-------and really does't care about any 'floating' or 'bulk" charging.

The German pragmatism is normally educated some more years on schools, so they manage very well the concept of "limiting" parameters to obtain better efficiency.

EX: the fuel pump will never start to increase instantly the rpm for obtaining a greater pressure into the rail, but because of German philosophy the "limit' already present for pressure value in the rail ( flow valve) will be instantly stopped or decreased.

So the entire Energy Management is only based by a young battery. Why?

Because of another very simple and pragmatic German engineering ....a new battery is always cheaper than the gasoline needed to be burned for a 20% thermal engine efficiency to be transformed into kinetic energy for the ALT to be transformed in electric energy to charge, float or bulk an old battery that can integrate around 30-50% of the received energy...and so on.

I personally agree with solderless pins problems or with the "aggressive" from 'Aggressive Energy Management" as new non EV cars charge with 15,7 when braking, but as the "enemy of good is better", the good, nice, elegant part of MB engineering outweighs the bad part.

I have 26 Years experience only on MB electronics, even on ECU repairs level, so I know a lot about problems, CAN use 'error correction' algorithm and if this will be not successful, the CAN communication will be transformed automatically into K-line communication ( on older models ) and there is no way to " Engine basic performance is affected", as the Engine ECU can throw Limp mode if something happens CAN or Voltage.

The Engine ECU, TCU, ESP, all modules from High Speed CAN they can monitor the voltage to three decimal places accuracy, and the power source of those expensive ECU use the latest high frequency PWM voltage converters, so they can make desired 12V for actuators or 5V for sensors or 3,3V or 1,8V for memory and processor can be obtained even from 16 till 10,7 V chassis voltage.

We learn today about how energy flows from our Credit Cards to heating an old battery and about difference between 'better" and 'good" and performance or Limp.

Of course, water, milk, Coca Cola or excessive humidity on CAN distributors, ECU connectors or cheep red chinese auto-crimping connectors over the CAN wires, or home TV console Audio Video cables connected over the automotive voltage supply for a chines display or camera, yes, those can intervene drastically over the entire well educated German arithmetic,


I use yours DIY's not to judge any of you in any way, but to draw another way of seeing things.

Beside calming the Alternator, the Energy Management also do that:

Disengaging the air-conditioning compressor from the engine’s belt drive when full throttle.
Changing the nature of the power steering pumps so that they operate on an on-demand basis, instead of always being on or reducing compressor load on partial load.
Using an intelligent thermal management system that only pumps coolant to the cylinders when the engine is already warm, reducing the time it takes to warm up to optimal temperature levels


Happy DIY...

 

Yes, please share!

 

nice : ) I have a samsung android as well.

 

What? You have your Sony Discman hooked up? How cool is that!

 

I am not here to split hair for free. This voluntary experiment is only interesting for people who own a related sick chassis.
Nothing we do is going to change Robert Bosch nor Daimler-Benz fantastic success.

You can note W212 fratures an electric steering driven by an AC motor. Hydraulic steering was eliminated.

Personally I don't own a 3.5L engine for gas savings. I value driveability over savings. Both combined works out best: power + savings!

Under improved conditions, I am now able to get better than 32.Mi/Ga. driving on flat highway.


efficiently self-tuned ECU

 

Or not....

 

more power from less gas = ENGINE EFFICIENCY
not possible...

 

We're gonna tweak the Android phone stack (right there) ... outside the ALT-LIN topic!

 

That is quite excellent to achieve in such a short distance. I've gotten even better than that, but usually after many hours of steady highway driving.

Curious, but were you using cruise control?

 

Okay JR let me tell you how I got these numbers.

I usually never look at that screen but since I stopped controlling the variable voltage...
I was drivng to lunch on that Sunday morning, freeway traffic was fluid.

The stat screen had a million old miles on it...
so I reset it clear while on the freeway, 15mn after starting.

I was controlling the gas pedal myself, not looking to brake any record only curious to use that menu.

I think the major factor is nearly constant speed besides the MB chassis tweaked to run normally.

The precise throttle control is from perfectly self-tuned fuel map. So we can expect good fuel economy given it's not MS! WOT on Sunday Pm

 

Anyone notice how the car now shuts off much more quietly.. Before any of these mods the car shut off was very noticeable (sort of a exhaust rumble) .. Now it is super quiet when I shut it off. 2016 C450 with C63S full exhaust . Was surprised how the tone changed when shutting car off.. Not sure what any of this means when car is shut off lolll.

 

Good question, let me pay attention next time. Although I am too lazy to drive lately haha : ) Anyways, keep you posted.

 

Congrats!


TIMINGS:
This reward is from your ECU able to tune your good engine. Glad you noticed how smooth this fine mechanic can really run.

Mine does a woosh with the last cylinder compression.


THROTTLE:
Lattely I noticed even the overnight cold start is becoming vibration free.
This is a combination of good mixtures and good compression seals.

Throttle is so responsive it is pressure sensitive, unlike the traditional need to get into higher Rpm to increase power. With a good GDI the torque is increased right here and now without higher rpm.

Stock is not even that or spongy: it's slushy under 2500.Rpm.


BRAKES:
-- This is related to smooth engine by way of normalized crankcase pressure (our vacuum booster source is not from intake)
-- Have you noticed any improvement with the brake HOLD activation?
-- Has it become easy to trigger with a light consistent push.
-- HOLD never fails to trigger unlike stock where brake pedal had to hit hard multiple times.


TRANNY:
The big winner with everything throttle is TRANNY. It's able to learn to work well with ECU.
Engine develops strong predictable power at lower RPM from solid fuel maps that tranny works with extremely well.

Have you noticef if your extreme engine heat is getting under control as well??

That's all it should have been from factory.
Now enjoy your premium ownership.

 

Forgot to ask, what engine oil are you currently running, is it 5W-50 or was it motul xcess gen 2 5W-40? I assume it is the former right?

 

I've driven 4,500.Mi on MOD-4: 5w50 that has shaded little viscosity. It's a proven effective oil viscosity.

Overall super satisfied: remaining viscosity still does the job of VVT positioning & spraying pistons better that MOD-3: 15w40 did.

Performance remains consistent, for my use.

I think it's important for pioneer members to experiment. It gives them the opportunity to sense how the engine works given effective viscosity vs. not enough when it's lost.

Hot turbo spirited driving will require a bit more reserve... you'll notice performance loss from higher heat when viscosity behaves like stock 0w40.
By all mean do use this 5w50 before considering 10w50 or 15w50.

 

Make sense, good stuff : )

 

We've seen a collection of factors easily detune our GDI engines back to stock.

In order for ECU to fine tune the engine timings we said it needs stability + predictability.

Jitter increasingly detunes basic ECU/TCU performance. into lean misfires + poor shiftings

Enhanced experimental formula:

1. Voltage swing disabled
2. oil pressure Solenoid disabled
3. oil viscosity 5w50+
4. pistons rings sealed
5. Self-tuned map data

Prematurely forcing high output from unbalanced engines is not recommended.
If unbalance is from carboned rings, they will cleanup (not so with drafty ovaled bores).


Improving all of this combination is not quick but the efforts are well worth the reward: pressure sensitive, cool vibration free engine.

Factory stock setup is simulating extreme conditions.
Whith improved setup you get:

1. snappy output control from 900.Rpm
2. seemless shifts by 722.9 ATF stay consistent
3. normaly controlled engine heat
4. possibly better gas mileage without burning oil
5. consistent brake HOLD trigger
6. No extreme heatsoaks (coolant, intake oil, fuel rail)
7. ....

The only way to get it all is by allowing the ECU to perform its GDI magic multishots.

++ it's important to understand how these pieces fit together - Its easy to get limited stock performance. Ppl wonder why they get no improvement with misfires on stock oil.

It's a journey more than only a setup .. :

1. ECU needs to learn VVT and fuel maps data
2. engine needs to seal cylinders
3. tranny need to learn shifts
4. Upstream lambda need to clean up
5. intake oil swamp needs to normalize
6. ....

The tell-tale sign is the vibration level.

 

 

What sort of progress has your engine made given changes you made??

 

To be honest, I rarely drove the vehicle since last month, so I don't think the vehicle had a chance to adapt to all these changes yet. The good news is, I will be putting more miles in the coming weeks though.

Probably starting 2 weeks from now and will happy to share my experience, and observations, I look forward to it.